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What's Next for the GXR?

I think the last few posts summarise exactly the dilemma as I see it. I had a GX200 and very seriously considered the GXR but considered it too expensive at the time of launch. I also wanted to know how Ricoh would develop the system. Neither situation has really changed and in many ways I wish that Ricoh had added more prime units to fill out the system quickly. I guess there isn't the resource. I wait and, as Tom has said, maybe would buy a cheaper discounted A12 prime if these become discounted as 'old stock'. Personally I would be happy with 12MP at the right price given the excellent matching of lens and sensor.
 
andrewteee":1kn2r3v9 said:
But there is more to it than just pixels. The 16 MP sensor has better dynamic range and high ISO performance (I know, I know, who needs that... I'm just sayin). While your tweaking the A12s also remove the AA filter just like the A16.

The A12s are fine; I know them well and use them often. But I've personally experienced improvements made in other cameras since then that in fact I appreciate in some case. But more to the point of a new buyer today, are they more likely to buy a 2012 16 MP camera or, at full price, a 2009 12 MP camera that is "perceived" as out of date and perhaps soon to be replaced?

The two A12 primes may be perfectly fine, but in the current marketplace they look tired.
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I agree: I'm not saying that the older sensors are bad but it is like buying a 2 year old (need I say 1st generation) camera at premium prices. I hesitate to do that and I bet a lot of others do, too.

Tom Caldwell":1kn2r3v9 said:
Regarded as excellent and ideal for the purpose by those that already have them but possibly dated and no longer state of the art by those proposing to enter the GXR range. Ricoh cannot just slip the latest sensor into a fresh batch of (say) A16 50mm macro lenses. This would leave them with an unsold stock of A12 versions which they would have to discount off to a joyful bunch of capability-knowing Ricohites - including myself I am shamed to say. I would love to pick up a cheap A12 50mm macro.

Furthermore if Ricoh started upgrading any particular lens module to a newer sensor then they could hardly not upgrade every module that had the "old" sensor. This would mean many new old stock discounts to sell off the unwanted models - it would create "an expectation" that would surely kill off the GXR as a concept.
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I don't agree with you, Tom. Ricoh always discounts it's older compacts concurrently with its newer models. The GXR is basically a large sensor compact so why should it be any different? The newer models are usually incrementally better than the previous model, which is what the A16 is over the A12. Are you saying that there wouldn't be a market for the A16s until the A12s were sold?

Ricoh habitually releases new models of its existing products a maximum of every 2 years. If you look at the GXR concept as different compacts with a common user interface/back, those compact modules are due for an update.

I avoided buying the GXR initially because as an older amateur photographer who wears glasses (!! gawd, that sounds bad), I need a camera with good AF, which the GXR didn't have. Ricoh rushed the product to market and it showed. Now, I think the camera is basically 'there', but it would be reassuring to buy something more 2nd generation.
 
Rog Tallbloke":2pd00r7r said:
Improvements in resolving power and dynamic range are getting incrementally smaller. On the backpacking site I frequent we recently discussed action photography and the new Olympus OMD camera. I pointed out that whilst AF speed has improved over the earlier mirrorless 4/3 cameras, the addition of the EVF has now pushed the weight up to being the same as the old Olympus E-410 DSLR. Action photographers tend to prefer optical viewfinders to EVF now matter how many pixels they boast. Considering the price difference between a new OMD and a clean second user E-410 means you could buy the E-410 and get a couple of voigtlander lenses to put in front of it with the change. For action I prefer a manual focus zoom anyway, so AF improvements don't mean much. Not that the phase detect AF on the old E-410 was a problem.

While the sensor has improved in the new OMD (16mp and better DR), the difference in IQ between the options would be considerably narrowed by the lens quality difference between the primes on the E-410, and the new kit zoom on the OMD.

GXR gives you high lens quality. The sensors are pretty good too. I don't really mind what Ricoh decides to give us next, as long as they give us something.
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Rog, the GXR will take an optical finder on the hot shoe and by using an "almost always in focus" wide angle (but being sensible about it) and presetting the aperture it becomes a pretty fast compact action camera.

I got lucky (no time to adjust anything) the other day with a shot of an eagle using a Meyer-Optik 135mm f2.8 and a M42 adapter. I already had the camera on f8.0 because it was fairly bright and near infinity focus. The eagle just sailed by and I caught it just using the lcd for framing.

A similar shot with an auto-focus camera is just about impossible as keeping the eagle in focus whilst "finding it" on a dslr is pretty hard even with focus tracking. Been there before.
 
Am I the only person here who wished that they had come out with the "usual set" of lensors? What I mean is this: Everybody needs a normal, a wide angle and a portrait lens (say, somewhere in the 90-150mm range, 135 equivalent). So, the A12 modules for 28mm and 50mm are fine (I don't need more than 12MP either), but what about anything in the tele range? Portraits isn't like, err, an unusal application for a camera!?

Another thought kept me from buying into the system for a long time: So you have coupled the lenses to the sensors, which prevents dust from coming in. Cool. But why not go all the way and add a real good weather sealing to the lensors and the body? Pentax has always done this (and in camera at a similar price point as the GXR)!

Combine the two, and you get the perfect travel kit:

- the smallest and lightest APS-C camera (which the GXR was, back in the day!)
- with a time-proven set of lenses (as every rangefinder owner will confirm)
- all weather-sealed = read: take-anywhere, use-always.

Some details to round it all off:

- why throw out the possibility of using AA batteries (as in the GX series) or AAA batteries (as in the GRD series)? Really useful in a pinch!
- why not add a portable hard drive that slots into the lensor slot: to backup your SD cards on elegantly in the evenings!
- why not then add a nice (yet unsuspicious-looking) bag that is custom-made for the camera and the three lensors? Should provide real fast access to the camera for shooting!

... with these details, and I would have been sold right away. The perfect travel camera -- actually, the perfectly allround camera, as far as I am concerned. Sadly, I'm still waiting for that tele lensor. Am I really the only one? :)
 
A hard drive module would be handy. Also I would like white saturation displayed in live view and not just in playback. If we are dreaming, then a A16 M module for $300, a A16 16-24mm and 1080p120/720p240
 
R: What's Next for the GXR?

I'd really love to see in the future a full frame leica m Mount module.
Sony has proved with new rx1 (still a rumor) that is possible to produce ff sensors in a small size.
Even if Ricoh will sell a ff m Mount module at 1500-2000 bucks will be interesting because gxr would be a leica competitor.
And yes I would like to see updated and cheaper a12 modules, maybe with a smaller sensor.

Inviato dal mio GT-I9100 con Tapatalk 2
 
bertalan":32j34f5o said:
A hard drive module would be handy. Also I would like white saturation displayed in live view and not just in playback. If we are dreaming, then a A16 M module for $300, a A16 16-24mm and 1080p120/720p240
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If Ricoh added USB-HOST capability you'd be able to back up/transfer shots to a small light memory stick. I think that would be the neatest solution at the moment.

I was lucky enough to scoop an almost unused A16 lensor of ebay last week for your dream price - keep your eyes open, there are bargains out there. The 16MP Sony sensor is just fantastic in my opinion. But then, I've been used to using several years old kit.

Having got used to the idea of carrying a bigger lens, and knowing the capability of the sensor in the P10, I'd like to see Ricoh make a 24x constant f2.8 zoom unit to rival the new Panasonic F200 bridge camera. That would take them into a burgeoning marketplace and win a lot of customers with something of comparable size and weight. The attraction of such a camera you could also swap a pro quality 28mm prime with APS-C sensor onto would be a winner IMO. They'd need to discount and bundle the VF-2 though.

I think the GXR concept is a long term winner; keep it coming Ricoh!
 
Re: R: What's Next for the GXR?

pappa":2vor89c6 said:
I'd really love to see in the future a full frame leica m Mount module.
...
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This is what I also hope! A new M-Mount with Nikon's D4 Sensor. That would be nice! :D
 
I should say I fall in love with the GXR system too.
I think they should look into integrating wifi or GPS to the next body, if they are going to make one.
It might sound silly, integrating things like wifi or GPS, but these days people love to share their photos on the net.
Bigger sensors are always nice to have.

Cheers.
 
From DP Review's news page:

"Sensor maker Aptina has released more details of its two most recently-announced chips, including a 10MP, 1"-type sensor that uses its dynamic range-boosting DR-Pix technology. The company, which also makes the 1" sensors used in the Nikon 1 System cameras, is making this new sensor available to the wider market. It has also provided more detail about an 18MP 1/2.3" compact camera sensor that can shoot 1080p video with three different crops at up to 120 frames per second."

Get in there Ricoh!
 
December has arrived and the silence from Ricoh as to what (if anything) comes next for the GXR says much: indeed it becomes clear that nothing new is about to happen soon! Consequently, any momentum the GXR had gained in the market seems effectively lost as all the other makers still out there shouting there newest sensations from the roof-tops. One wonders if this was the intention when Ricoh hooked up with Pentax, but one has to doubt it. However, it now seems that the GXR has been dumped down the pecking order and new bodies, or lenses of good fixed focal length (super-wides or short fast teles) are now just the stuff of dreams.
However, if anyone in the Ricoh HQ should read this, I would still like a full-frame module for Christmas, thank you very much! :D
Andy
 
I have my fingers crossed for a FF sensor module. But I'm still quite happy with the current one. However, I'm starting to lean more to an all B&W sensor module to allow me to use "real" colored filters.
 
I do not think that the FF module is close. Pentax said in photokina that, although considered a target, it is really not close (at least in the Pentax brand). It is just amazing that in such a competitive market, the niche of mirrorless FF has been left in hands of Leica exclusively... and nobody is trying to claim a piece of this cake... is the cake not big enough to care?
Sony has just said that there will be no new FF at least in 8 or 10 months...they have developed no FF lens for the NEX-VG900 just released. The E-mount from the NEX is just to be able to use those lenses but the firm switches from FF to APS-C as it recognises the lens...Fuji has said that some of the newly developed lenses for the X series are not really FF... and this is speaking about the 2 that seem more close to FF... FAR, FAR AWAY, I think.
In the mean time, just to keep us busy (I mean collecting money :D ) please, please ...a FOVEON module???? The IQ coming out of the DPxM is just second to none...in two words, Medium Format! ;)
 
spb_ch":1p9ol4zo said:
Duane, A b&w sensor would be a really cool upgrade.
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I think it would be magic! They can keep the APS-C sensor size too. Even the 12 megapixel one or better the 16. In one body I'd have a cool kick butt camera. And not have to pay 18k for two Leica bodies ( the new M or the Monochrom)!
 
Yes A16, black and white sensor, I would buy that tomorrow if it was available. Please Ricoh develop this as a sensor module. Or would it be called a A20, now that the sensor 20 mpixel is becoming more prevalent? Whatever, a B & W sensor module would be really ace coupled with the GXR as it is. Lovely cameras.
 
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