Ricoh GXR Leica M mount!!!

[eidiacc]

It is official! The module is going to cost $549.

A review on this M mount module is available

http://www.dpreview.com/news/1108/11080510ricohmmountpreview.asp

 

[kanzlr]

it says that focussing will be made easier because it does highlight sharp edges and increase edge contrast on the screen (like the Sony NEX does).
Also, they "again" (!!!) improved the quality of the 4x and 8x zoomed in display. "again"...it is horrible and unusable the way it is now.

if this is all they do I am glad I didn't wait for the module...

 

[Tom Caldwell]

Better than I had thought. Compare it to buying a Leica. Compare a GXR back plus M mount module to a Leica.

The combination is noting less than a whole M mount camera body.

So we can have an endless argument on just how much superior a Leica really is but my guess is that a whole lot of people who would never reach a Leica in their budget are going to find room in their budget for a M Mount module.

This will perversely help Leica I would judge, even if it is only in M mount lens sales. What Leica might worry about is more that some Leica owners will buy the GXR-M (just as a backup cameras of course) and find that it ain't too bad at all.

Leica's possible new camera might be nothing less than a GXR-type back with an inbuilt Leica type ovf or maybe even an evf. Something the GXR system might rightly be the better for.

Before anyone scoffs too much we might think that this is a marriage made in heaven. Leica get access to Ricoh's M mount and existing modules, get their own Ricoh-compatible back with a difference and get to make more suitable modules that fit both camera backs and expand the range available. Sort of win win for both Leica and Ricoh. Everything is possible in this world.

 

[kanzlr]

oh overall this is positive, I agree. But I had hopes the GXR could be my main camera system, and it failed at that. Mostly because AF is weak and MF is next to impossible.
Of course the edge detection will help, surely

and really: a used M8 is just € 1800 anymore, even if bought from a reputable second hand shop. It is cheaper even when bought directly from a user.

so you have € 1500,-- for a used M8 vs...maybe around 700,-- for the M module. Thats just € 800,-- difference anymore. And while I agree that the GXR is superb in a lot of ways, and smaller and lighter and more ergonomic than a Leica, the lack of a proper focusing method almost kills the GXR for a PRIMARY camera system.

 

[odklizec]

The DPReview samples gallery shows some nice sharp shots. The AA filter seems to be really thin, just on the edge where making it even thinner would start showing moire artifacts.

kanclr, what more did you expect? The M mount focus assistant indeed sounds like the one in Sony Nex cameras. But I think it's much better option than just a focus confirmation dot seen in DSLR cameras? And it's actually more than you will get from any other mirrorless camera, (except the NEX). The sad truth is that there is currently no mirrorless camera (aside the NEX and now GXR) with manual focus assistance! It's sad but true.

The GXR screen enlargement is not perfect, but it's all they could currently do, because of the sensor limitation. They are simply limited by the live video output from the sensor! They really cannot take the full 12MP frame, make a 100% crop from it and this show as an enlarged part of the screen. This would be just perfect and give us perfectly nice and relative clean enlarged view, unfortunately, it's impossible to do. For this they would need full 12MP live video output with at least 30fps frame rate to make the LCD refresh smooth. And I'm afraid, there is currently no sensor with such specs

 

[kanzlr]

kanclr, what more did you expect?

actually, I didn't expect more. That's why I did not wait for it

I am sure it will be usable, but I am also sure that it will not be even close to a real range finder. Even DSLR screens with good matte screens are way worse than a range finder for manual focussing anyways.

 

[odklizec]

Yes, it's unfortunately not rangefinder But on the other hand, it sounds like the next best mirrorless manual focus system (right after Leica M)? For price under 1000EUR (including body and EVF) it sounds like a bargain and very good option?

True, it may not be the best "primary" camera system, because of the lack of AF. But it was never intended to be one! It's just the camera for photographers enjoying the manual lenses. It's too early to say anything definitive about the Focus assistance and improved enlarged view, because nearly nobody outside Ricoh saw them in action. But initial DPReview comments sound good?

From DPReview preview:
"The ability to quickly and accurately focus manual lenses has been something of a challenge for cameras without an optical viewfinder. Plenty offer fast access to magnified live view but few offer the range of options of the GXR, which offers three levels of magnification, a choice of inset or whole-screen magnification, the two focus assist modes and a jump back to full preview when you half-press the shutter. For the manual-focus-only camera that this module creates, getting this right was essential and our initial impression are pretty positive."

 

[nevup]

One good news is that for existing GXR users, I think we will get firmware update for most of features from M mount module

 

[odklizec]

Re: Not a "universal" M mount?

Disappointed that "all" M mount lenses might not fit as there is some sort of "dip stick" device to pre-measure lenses to see if they will mount properly.

Tom, I think there is nothing to worry about. I think the majority of the M lenses will work without a problem. I think the problem could be with some "wild" designs and as Cris pointed in his article, collapsible lenses? You see, if there is no problem to attach a lens to M8/9 or RD-1, there will most probably be no problem attaching it to the GXR M mount.

 

[odklizec]

One good news is that for existing GXR users, I think we will get firmware update for most of features from M mount module

And this one of the reasons why we love the Ricoh way! Seriously, there is no other brand in the business doing this for their customers. In the following weeks, there will be announced GRDIV. And guess what? The GRDIII will get some of the GRDIV features via the FW update. Call me a fanboy, but I really love this approach!

 

[nevup]

And this one of the reasons why we love the Ricoh way! Seriously, there is no other brand in the business doing this for their customers. In the following weeks, there will be announced GRDIV. And guess what? The GRDIII will get some of the GRDIV features via the FW update. Call me a fanboy, but I really love this approach!

That is a nice news! I also have a grd3, although I use it less than before because of GXR....

 

[odklizec]

That's funny. I really love the GXR, especially the A12 modules. But I still use the GRDIII more than GXR. Simply, the size matters for me and sometimes smaller is better In addition, the bigger DoF helps me to take photos without proper focus. And with the addition of 21 extension I can take very action shots of my very fast moving girls Something that is unfortunately next to impossible with both A12 modules, because of not as wide angle of view and mainly, because of much shallower DoF.

 

[thelps]

Well I applaud Ricoh for a good design and making a product that the masses asked for.
Maybe Ricoh could have used the resources to make some other module but I also sheepishly like this device putting the "cat among the pidgeons" as it were.
Remember this may be a "Leica M mount" module but of course you can team it with Cosina or Zeiss lenses and I suspect many GXR/M owners will team these lenses because they have limited funds. (me!)
Lately I've become convinced that the optics play a big part to a great digital image, I think many current lenses particularly on DSLRs are below par for the job. This GXR/M device opens a door to possibilities before closed in $$ terms.

I can see a Landscape backpacker that has limited room and weight restrictions buying into this device as well as anyone who can make it work for their style.
I have to say the samples on dpreview look tack sharp and the sensor seemed to hold reasonable DR range.

 

[bertalan]

A Few Questions

Sorry if these have been answered already but I see no ability for the camera to operate the aperture of the lens so I assume it is completely manual meaning that you focus with the lens wide open(to make it bright enough) then stop down to the dof you want to shoot. Also, the dpreview site says that it has 720p30 movie, I assume this is mjpeg and will have completely manual control unless they do something silly like have auto ISO selection or some sort of auto gain. Does anyone have any more info about these items?

 

[Tom Caldwell]

Re: Not a "universal" M mount?

Disappointed that "all" M mount lenses might not fit as there is some sort of "dip stick" device to pre-measure lenses to see if they will mount properly.

Tom, I think there is nothing to worry about. I think the majority of the M lenses will work without a problem. I think the problem could be with some "wild" designs and as Cris pointed in his article, collapsible lenses? You see, if there is no problem to attach a lens to M8/9 or RD-1, there will most probably be no problem attaching it to the GXR M mount.

I am sititng there with a Jupiter 12 ready to use and just have acquired a Russar. I also have a GR28 #02613 ready to roar. I took a chance looking at the roomy interior of the prototypes.

So I am here all ready to act as a test rig waiting for the harness to strap them on to. My only other fear is that the Australian distributors might be a bit slow off the mark getting some bodies "down under".

I have delayed getting LTM - M mount adapters as most on the market have been coded for Leica mount brightlines and I was unsure how Ricoh might deal with this. If I am right then there is no coding required and one simple LTM to M mount adapter will do the trick.

Still not sure about the Jupiter-12 as it has a 20mm rear protrusion. It has a great reputation and I would really hope that the M mount will handle it. Obviously one would understand that the GR28 should fit!

Neither the Russar, the Orion 15, the Jupiter 12 or the GR28 will fit on a NX mount with LTM adapter. The Jupiter 9 is a bit so so as the rangefinder cam shorts the electricals at infinity.

However I have not given up ship until I can see for myself and Thomas' were not called doubting for nothing.

Tell Ricoh to put me on a priority list I have more test lenses lined up than most people. Grin.

 

[willo]

Sorry if these have been answered already but I see no ability for the camera to operate the aperture of the lens so I assume it is completely manual meaning that you focus with the lens wide open(to make it bright enough) then stop down to the dof you want to shoot.

You control Aperture via the lens, all M mount lens have a Aperture ring on them to control it. Metering should be auto as the camera will work it out.

Also you don't need to have lens wide open and then stop down for DOF, the LCD should show it on the fly.

 

[odklizec]

Re: A Few Questions

Also, the dpreview site says that it has 720p30 movie, I assume this is mjpeg and will have completely manual control unless they do something silly like have auto ISO selection or some sort of auto gain. Does anyone have any more info about these items?

Yep, the Video mode should be pure manual, which is a good news if compared with existing A12 modules, with their fixed aperture and focus. Now you will be able to manually focus, zoom or even change the aperture while capturing the video. Of course, there may be captured clicking noise from changing the aperture

 

[odklizec]

Re: Not a "universal" M mount?

I am sititng there with a Jupiter 12 ready to use and just have acquired a Russar. I also have a GR28 #02613 ready to roar. I took a chance looking at the roomy interior of the prototypes.

GR28? Cool! I'm sure I saw a photo of the M mount with GR28 attached? So this one should definitely work. Current post at Ricoh GRblog shows M mount with attached GR21:
http://www.grblog.jp/2011/08/gxr-mount- ... ewdays.php

I have delayed getting LTM - M mount adapters as most on the market have been coded for Leica mount brightlines and I was unsure how Ricoh might deal with this. If I am right then there is no coding required and one simple LTM to M mount adapter will do the trick.

Oh yes, I hoped there will be implemented Leica coding system. But as long as there is an option to save the lens info into settings and save/recall these settings from memory/file, I don't really care about coding.

Still not sure about the Jupiter-12 as it has a 20mm rear protrusion. It has a great reputation and I would really hope that the M mount will handle it. Obviously one would understand that the GR28 should fit!

I believe there was, and probably still is a problem with mounting the M lenses on NX? I would not judge the possibility/impossibility to attach the M/L lens to M based camera because of negative NX experience. As far as I know, the NX is probably the worst system for usage with the M lenses? From what I found, Jupiter-12 works with M8/9 and so I guess it will work with A12 M mount as well? Read the discussion under this post:
http://www.stevehuffphoto.com/2011/01/0 ... -chisholm/
It seems it's older Jupiter-12 (made before 1971) what causes the problems?

 

[tachi]

Presenting a quick review of the Leica mount by dpreview :

http://dpreview.com/previews/ricohgxrmountA12/page2.asp

 

[edward_no]

Im sure the price will go down once it has been out for a little while but it does seem odd that it costs as much as their other two a12 modules which had lenses built into them.