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Firmware 1.50 & RAW Only

Duane Pandorf

Duane Pandorf

Member
I've downloaded and updated my GXR and two Camera Units (A12 28mm & M Mount). I was excited to learn that this new update allowed the option to shoot RAW only. However, there's one major caveat with this new option. If you select it, pay no attention to setting any of the Image Settings. No matter what Image Settings you select, whether Natural, B&W, B&W (TE), all you're going to see through the LCD or VF-2 is the default color that the sensor is reading. Even after taking a photo with any of the different Image Setting options selected all you're going to see on the LCD during image preview after the image is taken is the color image embedded into the RAW DNG file. Once uploaded to your favorite image editing program, again all you have is the color image information that the sensor has captured. None of your Image Settings choices are imbedded into the DNG file.
 
Duane.....I found it. It's now posted at all the Ricoh sites....Thanks for the heads up.....
Installed and going out to shoot....Later
 
Hi Duane, I'm afraid, it's exactly how it's supposed to work. The DNG (as a RAW format) is, and always has been, intact from all in-camera image settings. This is the purpose of RAW - storing pure sensor data intact from all image processing. True, in these days, it's really hard to say if the RAW data are truly RAW, because many companies apply this or that kind of RAW "optimization" (e.g. noise reduction, lens distortion correction, chromatic aberration correction, etc...). But as far as I know, no company so far apply image processing over the RAW data.

On the other hand, I believe that the actual (in-camera) image settings values are still stored in the DNG EXIF. But these data are practically useless because as far as I know, none RAW editor so far reads them ;)
 
odklizec":1uanzp9k said:
Hi Duane, I'm afraid, it's exactly how it's supposed to work. The DNG (as a RAW format) is, and always has been, intact from all in-camera image settings. This is the purpose of RAW - storing pure sensor data intact from all image processing. True, in these days, it's really hard to say if the RAW data are truly RAW, because many companies apply this or that kind of RAW "optimization" (e.g. noise reduction, lens distortion correction, chromatic aberration correction, etc...). But as far as I know, no company so far apply image processing over the RAW data.

On the other hand, I believe that the actual (in-camera) image settings values are still stored in the DNG EXIF. But these data are practically useless because as far as I know, none RAW editor so far reads them ;)
Click to expand...

I do understand that we're working with the actual data that the sensor is capturing in the RAW file. However, in comparison, when I shoot RAW with my D200 and I've selected B&W, the JPG that's imbedded into the RAW would be B&W. Of course in post process, you still have access to the "original" rendering in the colors recorded by the sensor. Since I haven't shot with my D200 in a long time I may have to get it out and check this later today if I have time.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not unhappy that we now have the option for RAW only.
 
When you have the option for RAW only, it makes sense that you would not be able to see any imaging options, since the purpose of RAW is solely for storing pure, unaltered, unprocessed data. All the processing is done later on a computer, where you can then apply image options such as B&W. In order to see imaging options in camera, you would need to choose the RAW and JPEG option, or just the JPEG option, as the JPEG file will reflect any image changes you make, along with the processing the camera applies to the RAW file as it converts it to a JPEG.

A RAW only option is useful for those who like to throw away the JPEG file and work mainly with RAW. Having the RAW only option means no JPEGs to delete later, and greater memory space on the SD card. It also means faster processing time after taking a picture. It really just depends on what your preferences are. If you do not want to sacrifice being able to see image options, and you would rather work with JPEGs, then you are better off sticking with JPEG only. If you would like to see what you could do with the RAW files, but still want to keep the JPEGs for comparison, convenience, etc., then you would use the RAW and JPEG option. If you have no use for JPEGs, and want to process all RAW files yourself, then you would choose RAW only option.
 
Hi Duane, I see your point. However, I still think it would be confusing for users to store B&W (processed) preview in the DNG. At first, this embedded preview is too small. At second, it's useless for anything, because the B&W settings (all image settings) are not loaded into the RAW conversion program. So in my opinion, it would be confusing for users to see the B&W preview and after opening the RAW in RAW editor, all they would get is an unprocessed (colorful) photo. If you search this forum, you can find some posts from confused users who got the "colored" RAW even though their image settings and so the JPEG preview was in B&W. They simply expected to see the RAW in B&W too. Hope it makes sense to you? ;)
 
Hi Duane,

I see your point most DSLRs let you influence the processing of the embedded jpeg (canon does). And when you load the raw into canon's own raw processor (DPP) then the raw is processed with all the set parameters. However this is only true for their own software, Lightroom doesn't care and just starts from scratch.

I happy that Ricoh implemented raw only, since this saves me some space and files on the cards and on the import. And yes I've used B&W with raw to get the B&W preview.
 
It would be nice to have "Auto Delete" for the jpeg just after exposure.
Then one would see the B&W on the screen but not have to deal with any jpeg image. It would also assist in the magnification for MF.
This would be very useful and should be an easy firmware fix.
 
I'm not complaining just stating how the new RAW only option has been implemented. Many of us like seeing thru the view finder in say B&W which is how we'll process the image. So when we shoot that way we'll have to use the RAW+Jpg option. No big deal as I have big enough cards.
 
Duane, it actually is a big deal. It a method of operation that is interrupted.
For me, I'm happy Raw only. For MF people, this is an issue.
Read my post above. Seems to me Pavel could get this in front of Ricoh's eyes.
I feel bad for you and my MF friends.....
 
streetshooter":34wpe6h8 said:
Duane, it actually is a big deal. It a method of operation that is interrupted.
For me, I'm happy Raw only. For MF people, this is an issue.
Read my post above. Seems to me Pavel could get this in front of Ricoh's eyes.
I feel bad for you and my MF friends.....
Click to expand...

The other nice update to help us manual focus shooters is the Peak Focusing update. This is a noticeable improvement!
 
Well, I see a reason why RAW only people are unhappy about the current implementation of RAW-only mode. The impossibility to check the focus in RAW is definitely not nice. But I'm still missing the point of B&W preview, because in the end, the RAW file will be always in color. So what would be the advantage of B&W preview?

Anyway, I think it would be good to show at least a temporary full resolution JPEG-based preview, right after capturing the RAW. This preview would be discarded after taking another photo or leaving the preview mode. I think it would be better option than storing full resolution JPEG directly into DNG, as suggested by some folks at the dpreview forum? In my opinion, saving full-res JPEG preview in DNG would be against the purpose of RAW-only option.

There are two problems with temporary displayed preview...

At first, one would have to switch the LCD confirmation time to HOLD, instead of using the time-limited preview. Only in HOLD mode is possible to zoom preview image. But I think some people may hate the idea of constantly enabled HOLD confirmation option?

And second problem, Continuous mode ignores the HOLD confirmation time. So it would be impossible to check the focus anyway, because the temporary full resolution file would be discarded right after taking last continuous photo. No HOLD = no temp preview.
 
Pavel, when I know I want to shoot photos in B&W I want to view the scene I'm seeing as I take the picture in B&W. Of course you never ever able to do this when shooting with a film camera. But now with digital and the GXR in RAW+ Jpg or in just Jpg mode one can view his shooting environment and see it live in the form that the final image will be processed without guessing how the colors will look in B&W.

Hope this makes sense.
 
Pavel, I'm talking photography and not cameras here. B&W preview allows the abstraction of the image to a further degree then color. The screen abstracts a 3 dimensional reality to a 2 dimensional reality, like a photo does. Going to B&W increases the distance between these 2 realities. This is the true purpose of photography, not just making engineering marvels called cameras.

There now exist a trade off in the gxr that has just been borne.
The ability to do raw only and the loss of that ability in order to keep a jpeg for whatever reason.
This is an engineering disease that hopefully will find a cure in a sooner then later update.

I'm not aiming this at you Pavel, you just have more pull at Ricoh then most humans.
Don
 
Duane Pandorf":j7fp92li said:
The other nice update to help us manual focus shooters is the Peak Focusing update. This is a noticeable improvement!
Click to expand...
Duane, the focus peaking has also been updated in this FW release??

Pavel, for the sake of having raw only, can you please confirm if we have bigger dng files because these include the jpeg preview (640x480) even when we shoot in raw+jpeg mode?
 
AlbertTRAL":2vujgjpp said:
Duane Pandorf":2vujgjpp said:
The other nice update to help us manual focus shooters is the Peak Focusing update. This is a noticeable improvement!
Click to expand...
Duane, the focus peaking has also been updated in this FW release??

Pavel, for the sake of having raw only, can you please confirm if we have bigger dng files because these include the jpeg preview (640x480) even when we shoot in raw+jpeg mode?
Click to expand...

Hi Albert,

This is text from the Firmware PDF Document that details all the 1.50 Firmware update:

[Focus Assist]
The shape outlines and contrast of the images shown on the picture display are intensified, making it easier to adjust the focus.
Note------------------------------------------------------------------------------
• When focusing manually, the intensification of the shape outline or contrast will be released by pressing the shutter button halfway.
• You can select the display method for Focus Assist from [Focus assist selection] in the setup menu.

The link below is the Spanish version of the PDF Doc:

http://ricoh.com/r_dc/download/firmware ... vup_es.pdf
 
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