Firmware 1.50 & RAW Only

[AlbertTRAL]

The other nice update to help us manual focus shooters is the Peak Focusing update. This is a noticeable improvement!

Duane, the focus peaking has also been updated in this FW release??

Pavel, for the sake of having raw only, can you please confirm if we have bigger dng files because these include the jpeg preview (640x480) even when we shoot in raw+jpeg mode?

Hi Albert,

This is text from the Firmware PDF Document that details all the 1.50 Firmware update:

[Focus Assist]
The shape outlines and contrast of the images shown on the picture display are intensified, making it easier to adjust the focus.
Note------------------------------------------------------------------------------
• When focusing manually, the intensification of the shape outline or contrast will be released by pressing the shutter button halfway.
• You can select the display method for Focus Assist from [Focus assist selection] in the setup menu.

The link below is the Spanish version of the PDF Doc:

http://ricoh.com/r_dc/download/firmware ... vup_es.pdf

Thanks Duane, but this is the summary of ALL enhanced functions since 1.17 release. I had not seen any update of the focus peaking in the Ricoh comments of the 1.5 release, that is why I was asking. I understand then that the focus peaking remains the same as it was in 1.44...?
BTW, I prefer the english version, usually is more understandable...

 

[Duane Pandorf]

Thanks Duane, but this is the summary of ALL enhanced functions since 1.17 release. I had not seen any update of the focus peaking in the Ricoh comments of the 1.5 release, that is why I was asking. I understand then that the focus peaking remains the same as it was in 1.44...?
BTW, I prefer the english version, usually is more understandable...

Well you may be correct and nothing has changed in the Focus Peaking. I assumed that any note in the latest document meant that was an improvement in the latest firmware update.

BTW, I just assumed that you having the Spain location on your profile you would like the Spanish version.

 

[Tom Caldwell]

I like raw files as I can tweak them later. But I have no problem carrying the baggage of a stored jpg as well. I suppose it slows recording down and takes up space on the sd card. So you still get the raw file.

Therefore do you trade jpg fies messing up things for for an in-camera benefit? Personally I quite like capturing jpg in my b&w setting and being able to play with it as a full size jpg and then have my "original" coloured raw file for after-satisfaction .

Also it is good to have a raw file because it can be adjusted. However most camera companies "cheat" a bit with their raw files and export enough metadata to enable the raw file processing program to rough up a fair representation jpg as a starting point, surprisingly enough much the same as your adjusted capture.

Therefore perhaps an honest approach by Ricoh really gives RAW in the raw. Therefore perhaps we really prefer an adjusted version of the actual raw capture as our starting point?

Sorry if it seems convoluted.

But I could live with a delete only jpg capture (retain the raw file) to excise the jpg file I no longer needed.

Tom

 

[Tom Caldwell]

It would be nice to have "Auto Delete" for the jpeg just after exposure.
Then one would see the B&W on the screen but not have to deal with any jpeg image. It would also assist in the magnification for MF.
This would be very useful and should be an easy firmware fix.

I think we covered this elsewhere - perhaps capture jpg+raw and have a delete jpg only setting?

Tom

 

[AlbertTRAL]

Tom Caldwell wrote:
I like raw files as I can tweak them later. But I have no problem carrying the baggage of a stored jpg as well. I suppose it slows recording down and takes up space on the sd card. So you still get the raw file.

Therefore do you trade jpg fies messing up things for for an in-camera benefit? Personally I quite like capturing jpg in my b&w setting and being able to play with it as a full size jpg and then have my "original" coloured raw file for after-satisfaction .

Also it is good to have a raw file because it can be adjusted. However most camera companies "cheat" a bit with their raw files and export enough metadata to enable the raw file processing program to rough up a fair representation jpg as a starting point, surprisingly enough much the same as your adjusted capture.

Therefore perhaps an honest approach by Ricoh really gives RAW in the raw. Therefore perhaps we really prefer an adjusted version of the actual raw capture as our starting point?

Spot on Tom! I think this option has been handed by Ricoh to optimize time between shots in an already short processing power and buffer of the GXR (hopefully upgraded in a near future...) for RAW shooters. It is a welcome this superefficient mode (without including a big jpeg preview to make the dng even bigger), if I also need jpeg functionality, let´s shoot raw+jpeg! What is the problem today that memory price is reasonable? .
Just waiting to see if somebody knows if the preview jpeg is also included in the dng (unfortunately making these slightly bigger) when shooting raw+jpeg... :?:

 

[streetshooter]

It would be nice to have "Auto Delete" for the jpeg just after exposure.
Then one would see the B&W on the screen but not have to deal with any jpeg image. It would also assist in the magnification for MF.
This would be very useful and should be an easy firmware fix.

I think we covered this elsewhere - perhaps capture jpg+raw and have a delete jpg only setting?

Tom

Tom, yes we did but I don't like to leave anyone out of important conversations.
An issue like this needs worldwide attention.
Don

 

[Remko]

The dng contains an embedded jpg (according to the A16 FAQ on the Ricoh site http://www.ricoh.com/r_dc/support/faq/b ... 06022.html)

•When RAW + JPEG is selected : It is the JPEG file that is displayed when you playback the image which was captured in the RAW mode, of which is recorded with a DNG file at the same time. In the screen, the RAW mode symbol will appear in the display. And if you delete that JPEG file (such as with a computer), enlarged view will not work but it shows a thumbnail only, which is linked in camera.
•When RAW only is selected : a JPEG file saved in a DNG file is displayed in the camera.[/]

 

[streetshooter]

Remko, this is correct. The embedded jpeg in the raw file is just for viewing the screen etc. It will not show the image in B&W and it's a low resolution image at that. It's basically useless.

 

[AlbertTRAL]

Remko, thanks for the clue. I have tested deleting the jpeg generated in FW 1.44 with the raw+jpeg option and the camera shows the image but really blurry and not able to zoom at all; this means that in raw+jpeg, the jpeg embedded in the dng is even smaller than 640x480, which is the tiny size of the raw only option. I will check with 1.5 FW once I install it.

 

[Tom Caldwell]

A RAW in a teacup?

I think this controversy is caused by different conceptions of what a raw file really is. when camera users think of "raw" they think "raw data as adjusted by my shooting settings". That is everything that is necessary to make up a jpg image that I saw when I captured the image.

When camera manufacturers think of "raw" they think "only the raw data ex-sensor plus the very basic noise and other adjustment profiles supplied by the camera manufacturer".

The latter is really raw, the former is more like you might expect if you were happy with in-camera generated jpg images.

So when a manufacturer is asked for "raw" only they naturally think that in camera adjustments are not so necessary. The user wants 100% full manual control of the final image. The corollary being that the precise capture detail if focused correctly is otherwise almost immaterial.

However in both cases the raw data can be manipulated by the user afterwards to their own satisfaction. The only real difference is the starting point. If settings metadata used then the first thing that any raw processing software does is to try and make it's own version of the jpg file that the camera would have made internally. Therefore you would tend to see something similar as a starting point. If only a limited amount of metadata was exported it is possible that the first attempt image from raw processing software will not look like the camera adjusted image that you thought you had taken.

There is a lot of merit in being able to seriously review and zoom on a captured image on the spot. To do this you need the full size in-camera generated jpg.

Ricoh have responded to requests for "raw only" quite helpfully but presumed that the users are not really interested in Ricoh's jpg but only in their own "steam driven" personal rendition made later. They need a minimal jpg in camera to allow a basic review of capture and have obligingly included this in the raw file body so that we do not have to mess around with deleting large numbers of tiny jpg files. Years ago in one of the iterations of Canon's raw file storage you got a corresponding *.thb file. This was the vga thumbnail file for screen display. Many happy hours spent deleting the useless *.thb files.

If anyone needs to addle their brains Adobe has released the dng specification on to public domain. It can be downloaded as a pdf from their website. In the specification you can see many things including all the other metadata instructions that can be exported from the camera. Made my head whirl a bit but I did note that each sensor/camera has a supplied noise adjustment profile.

Therefore it seems an "expectations" issue and users and Ricoh are talking different definitions simply because users have decided that raw files can be adjusted to their personal taste and satisfaction much better than jpg files once made (anywhere). What the users may not have fully understood is that there is "raw" raw and raw+metadata and that they really want the latter.

To my mind the main advantage of a raw+metadata file is that you get all the information to play with. If your original capture was as perfect as possible then surely only the finest of adjustments need be made. If you had enough time and inclination I suppose that several "prints" to jpg could be made and the best parts layered into a single exquisite final image. However if you did not get it quite right at the point of capture then raw+metadata allows the best means of recovery to an acceptable image. If you made a mistake at capture the camera does not know and will blindly make its own jpg exactly as you drove the camera to do its business.

I think Streetshooter's idea of a full size jpg deleted after capture review is a good solution. I think my suggested amendment of keeping the image but adding a "delete jpg only" function exercisable at will by the user. Therefore the jpg version would remain on camera until deleted by the user. Perhaps even a "delete all jpg files" used just prior to offloading the files from the camera? Of course the raw file should transmit raw file capture + metadata just as before - I don't really think that users really meant that they could dispense with all metadata.

When you think of it - is this really necessary and an undue complication on the camera? You can achieve much the same thing by downloading direct from your sd card via a reader. Simply sort files by extension. Cut/paste the dng to your computer and delete all the jpg files off your card directly - simple. And you still have all the jpg files in camera when you might need them.

Finally I must muse over the problems of keeping a jpg + raw file. It certainly slows up capture somewhat, but notions are that we want the full size jpg for review of the capture in camera - cross that one out. It takes up more space on your sd card. Correct but the cards get bigger capacity and cheaper all the time. I have been using a 16gb card on my GXR for a while and I can go through charged batteries faster than I can fill that card, in fact I have not run out of space on a 16gb card yet. I have a couple of 32gb super-fast sd cards on order. Keeping jpg+raw on a 16gb card has not proved a problem to me.

What is left? The clutter of jpg and raw files on my hard drive. Yes it is a problem - both are not really needed. I tend to find most of my casual shots are fine in their jpg version, saving time in further processing - they were never meant to be works of art. Those that are memorable, or broken and I want to make better are best processed from raw+metadata. I store my dng and jpg files ex-camera in separate files. Processed dng go somewhare else. If I need to dice my jpg files then I can dice a whole jpg directory after having extracted those that I wish to keep.

Streetshooter's idea with my addition seems the best compromise. Capture everything in raw+jpg and have a function to delete all jpg files before downloading from the sd card. If you still need raw only then there is a way and you get a bonus inside in the form of a hardly useful embedded tiny jpg. (Grin).

In the end I think I will simply keep using my current method of a setting for "Good Light" where I expect perfect conditions and serious photography using jpg+raw capture. "Quick" for rough work and when in a hurry (requiring the quickest response) - higher ISO expectation and jpg only capture - maybe I will change this to raw only? And "B&W" which is more my arty setting and for poor available light where I capture in b&w jpg but keep a raw file copy.

Tom