GR User Forum

The spot for all Ricoh GR camera users

Register for free, meet other Ricoh GR users, share your images, help others, have fun!

Tell your friends about us!

A Brand New Ricoh Camera will come

xc1427

New Member
http://photorumors.com/2012/12/21/pentax-full-frame-camera-in-the-news-again/

The recent post on PHOTORUMORS disscussed the possibility of a FF Pentax DLSR. This is not a new topic as we all know about the expectation of a FF Pentax.

Well, the interesting thing is that it is also mentioned "Besides, a Ricoh brand new camera will come". Since it is said to be BRAND NEW, i thought it will neither be a new GXR mount, nor a GRD 5.

I think there are two possibilities. One is a 28mm fixed lens campact camera with LARGE sensor, let's say 1'inch(with f1.7 max aperture) or M4/3(f2.5). This is not a GRD5; I think the GRD5 will still use 1/1.7 sensor but with lower price tag maybe. This will be perhaps named "GR1D", showing more respect for the GR1 film camera. The other is simply a Mirrorless Campact like NEX or EOS-M. That will mean that ricoh abandon their GXR product line.

What is your opinion ? Thanks for hearing that !
 
No idea of what to think. Can only hope that whatever new camera Ricoh may release will take advantage of their awesome functionality with the latest tech.
 
Duane Pandorf":3j3tntjj said:
No idea of what to think. Can only hope that whatever new camera Ricoh may release will take advantage of their awesome functionality with the latest tech.
Yeah, I agree. Their functionality is awesome. A new GXR body is also possible. A FF GXR module ? ^_^ Haha, that is so unrealistic..
 
Hello xc1424, glad you read ;-) !

A few months ago, I noted two patents filed by Ricoh.
- 14mm F2.5 m4/3inch
and
- 19mm F2.5 APS-C

http://translate.google.com/transla...n&u=http://egami.blog.so-net.ne.jp/2012-07-06

The first patent is for the next GRDV perhaps ?
The second for the future GXR markII ?

Wait for the next show CP+ for answers to our questions !

(sorry but I do not speak very much English, and I use google translate to write ...)

xc1424, I hope it is not too cold Grenoble and I often look at your pictures on your Flickr :)

Have a good day and a Merry Christmas,
nobru2607
 
xc1427":c1q72fqp said:
Duane Pandorf":c1q72fqp said:
No idea of what to think. Can only hope that whatever new camera Ricoh may release will take advantage of their awesome functionality with the latest tech.
Yeah, I agree. Their functionality is awesome. A new GXR body is also possible. A FF GXR module ? ^_^ Haha, that is so unrealistic..

I don't need a ff sensor. I don't print bill board size and I don't want to have to upgrade my computer system to handle those file sizes.

But, I wouldn't complain if an A16 M mount arrived or a 35mm FOV module. Preferably faster than 2.5. A B&W module would be nice too.
 
Duane Pandorf":262dvci4 said:
xc1427":262dvci4 said:
Duane Pandorf":262dvci4 said:
No idea of what to think. Can only hope that whatever new camera Ricoh may release will take advantage of their awesome functionality with the latest tech.
Yeah, I agree. Their functionality is awesome. A new GXR body is also possible. A FF GXR module ? ^_^ Haha, that is so unrealistic..

I don't need a ff sensor. I don't print bill board size and I don't want to have to upgrade my computer system to handle those file sizes.

But, I wouldn't complain if an A16 M mount arrived or a 35mm FOV module. Preferably faster than 2.5. A B&W module would be nice too.

Haha, I cannot agree with you anymore, especially for the need of FF. My expectation is mainly for GRD. I wish it has 1 inch sensor with f1.7 lens. As GR lens correct disortion optically, which means the design of lens may not be easier than RX100, I am not sure if Ricoh can put a large sensor into it and at the same time retain the campact size, not to mention m4/3 sensor, which is much larger.

As to FF, I dont need it too. I use a GRD4 and haven't ownd an APS-C ever. The most important element for photography is one's head. I admit the dynamic range is better on FF than APS-C. However, APS-C is good enough to do almost everything in daily shooting.

It is like a Volkswagen Passat R36 is able to do all kinds of driving in daily life, including some racing; we do not need a Audi R8 V10 unless we want to show off. Only a few people need AUDI because they are professional car racer. Actually, for most of us, we even do not need a R36, because we only drive in cities. So a Golf GTI is good enough(like the GRD, or Panasonic LX). Recently lots of people find Fiat 500 is awesome(like Iphone).

Some people talks about Bokeh. I thnk they are just beginners. They think the blurer, the better. Bokeh is good only when we need it. I really love one phrase: Great photography is about depth of feeling, not depth of field.

At last, I try to type the Hiragana and Katagana in the article with my poor japanese. I'll aprreciate if somebody can translate it, better than google.
リコーブランドの新製品が登場。GR DIGITALやGXR と異なるタイブかもしれない。コアなリコーフアンが滿足できるカメラらしい。
 
nobru2607":2ye83hlp said:
Hello xc1424, glad you read ;-) !

A few months ago, I noted two patents filed by Ricoh.
- 14mm F2.5 m4/3inch
and
- 19mm F2.5 APS-C

http://translate.google.com/transla...n&u=http://egami.blog.so-net.ne.jp/2012-07-06

The first patent is for the next GRDV perhaps ?
The second for the future GXR markII ?

Wait for the next show CP+ for answers to our questions !

(sorry but I do not speak very much English, and I use google translate to write ...)

xc1424, I hope it is not too cold Grenoble and I often look at your pictures on your Flickr :)

Have a good day and a Merry Christmas,
nobru2607

Hi, nobru! I am glad to see you at this site. The world is so small! Thanks for the link! I read it.
I upload less photos recently, because we are so busy. But I often view contact's photos, including yours, of course :). I know you have new gears, just enjoy it! Bonne Fête et Joyeux Nöel!
 
My idea of the GXR is that it is a good idea left unfinished. Presumably the GXR did not get enough market acceptance to see it through to what must have been the true objective. In danger of having the whole Ricoh camera division stalling the company bought Pentax to play with. Pentax would provide ready cash flow, extra manufacturing facilities, a host of patents and a way into the dslr market, that will inevitably die but not for quite a few years yet. But Pentax no doubt had it's own problems and there was existing product in the process of development that was seen through to market.

Obviously a completely new think and rationalising of product, staff and manufacturing facilities.

So where might have the GXR system have been headed? We know about all the fanciful and also some quite good plug in attachments that were shown as mock-up products when the GXR was first released. I am not sure that any of these would be much of a commercial prospect. They could never make a printer attachment cheap enough to sell in sufficient quantities to make it viable. Maybe a plug in attachment to drive another GXR camera body remotely by wireless would win sufficient hearts?

However the S10, P10 and A12/24 (28?) are nothing more than the GX, CX and GRD for the GXR body, the latter having an upgrade to aps-c in the process.

So if the GXR has to be an all-purpose system where every module is a "new camera" then the GXR host camera back is too large to be comfortable in replacing Ricoh's smaller format cameras.

When I thought about it and compared my GXR with my GRDIII I noted that the GXR is about the same width and depth as the GRD but considerably higher. At first I dismissed all thought that Ricoh could actually make a camera back small enough and still use the GXR-rail mount system. The mount system requires a "reverse L" firm mechanical mount. On the GXR there is a flash, buttons, hot shoe mount with evf plug and various other operating paraphanalia up there. If, for example, they chose to reduce this height to a nominal trim cover only they would have to relocate, abandon, or reduce what is already there and compact whatever internal components reside there. Abandoning the internal flash and evf plug would make the rest of the exercise relatively easy. Recent talk about led flash units might allow some sort of micro-flash alternative.

Basically what I am saying is that a second GXR back in the general size of the present GRDIV would give Ricoh fans a whole new range of cameras instantly. The "new" CX, GX, and a GRD with a number of aps-c modules ready to roll. The "GXD" with mount module would provide the sweetest little Leica clone imaginable.

"Oh!" we say "the P10 and S10 are old hat, obsolete, nobody wants them". Well I have them, find them a bit large format on the GXR and barely use them, despite knowing that they do quite well for their original designed purpose. On a small "GXD" body I would be sure to give them another lease of life as useful "GRD-zooms".

Of course the current aps-c modules would give those users who always wanted a larger sensor for the GRD exactly what they wanted.

No stone left unturned Ricoh could safely release a couple of new modules to supplement such a new GXR-rail camera back on release.

This might include the very obvious full-function PK mount module. Most likely with an aps-c sensor.

This last possibility would not work well with my imaginary GXD or even the existing GXR but would need yet another GX* camera back which might mimic the needs of an slr - built-in hi-res evf and a shaped slr-style grip. Significant shot to shot buffer would be mandatory. Lets call it the "GXK" to give homage to Pentax.

This might be the true-professional third camera back with mount rails. Not something that you might fit a P10 module to normally (but technically you could) but would be very attractive to those who need rapid capture, an evf, and a grip that allowed large lenses to be carried and used purposefully. All the present aps-c modules including the mount module would work well for those that preferred this type of camera set up. Of course extreme compact size is not nearly as important in this type-scenario and the extra baggage of evf and grip would be almost unnoticed.

The present GXR camera back might well continue or be upgraded somewhere along the way, there is nothing basicaly wrong with this fine piece of a camera.

If we currently have two small sensor modules and four aps-c sensor modules then by adding (say) three more modules (PK mount and take your pick on two more) then the GXR system might have nine modules to choose from. Add two extra camera backs and you have 3 x 9 = 27 combinations of camera that you can "make" from the components. Truly the GX* rail mount system would be a very versatile system indeed.

This might range from the "GXD" with P10 (aka) CX7 to the "GXK" with PK mount and a big-daddy Pentax telephoto on board.

Of course this is all in my imagination. Soon enough we will find the GXR abandoned and a brand new mount system on yet another new camera body (much like the rest of the new cameras made). One thing about conservative thought is that it tries to drag everything back to a common everyday average, but safe, denominator. Then of course we can start requesting new lenses for this new mount system, let the fun begin.

Tom
 
Of course with two new GX* backs there would be no need for a CX upgrade, nor for the GRDV, and the GX series would be resurrected.

Ricoh would have their system, it would be unique and if they ever chose they could make m4/3 mount and PQ mount modules or even Sony mount modules, or any others that they chose and were allowed to make.

Instead of making continuing upgrades to a number of cameras requiring redesign and re-tooling they just make system components that might sell for years. Instead of reqularly upgrading existing components directly they might just upgrade obliquely without directly superseding any system component already released.

it would require a change in the mindset of existing "forever upgrading" digital camera owners, but once accepted it seems the most genuininely sensible course of action.

Tom
 
Duane Pandorf":2c8zryn1 said:
Hey Tom,

I guess I changed my mind and went ahead and moved up to a FF camera. Leica M-E.

I guess that you were half-way there already Duane considering your lens stocks. It must have only been a matter of time (grin). Next the "typ245"?

I am not so sure that the Ricoh system needs a FF mount module before it needs new camera backs. For the good reason is that it provides too narrow a commercial focus. Possibly those Leica-like enthusiasts would jump at a "cheap Leica FF" but the vast majority of potential customers would be more interested in a (say) EVIL-type "Pentax dslr equivalent" back or in a GRD that would accept aps-c sensor modules and above all "auto everything".

To go to the expense of an optimised FF mount module for a relatively limited market would weld Ricoh into being seen as a "cheap Leica" for those that would not / could not afford a "proper Leica". But for such a limited market the Ricoh variant would have to be much more expensive, thereby limiting sales and in effect going head to head in a battle that would do neither Leica nor themself any good. Ricoh and Leica are probably happy enough to leave each other in their own market niche undistrurbed.

Tom
 
i think the new ricoh camera will be similar to the fuji x100 with an aps-c sensor without filter and with optical viewfinder.

zoom or not zoom, i don't know but is not possible to change the lens.

a really good camera like the analog one.
 
Sergiozh.
It would be really easy for Ricoh to come up with something like X100. Just a new A12 unit with 23mm/2 glass and Pentax 5IIs sensor.
 
no it needs more. an good optical viewfinder with information about iso, time and diaphragm and manual control of diaphragm and distance on the lens and manual control of iso and time on the camera-body.

the distance-control on the lens should move directly the optical elements (mechanical and not electrically indirectly).

the design of the camera should be good.
 
Fuji patented their complex ovf apparently more for the purpose of showing off their ability to do so. For those that must have a connected optical viewfinder there is either this or Leica or the continuing range of dslr camera bodies. All these devices are more complex/expensive to produce in a time where electronics is taking over. Even Fuji has re-released it's signature hybrid ovf model with another, smaller, cheaper evf based version that will sell by the truckload to those that remain unconvinced that optical viewfinders are absolutely necessary. Surely these great optical finders are marvels of mechanico-optical technology but the Ricoh Mode2 view of the image that you are about to capture must make mockery of the "perfect image in the viewfinder" and still allow the capture of perfectly framed, perfectly focused images. What is seen through the optical viewfinder is not the actual image captured. There are subtle differences such as exposure and white balance amongst others. However we can easily diverge into argments about framing and the gaining up of evf screens to compensate for low light. Opening the lens for enough light to focus when using an slr/dslr and stopping down on capture, the necessity for a dof preview button and the complete disconnect between the image going to the sensor and the ovf view on a straight through finder. Fuji fixed this in a quite technical manner but I suggest that it is more likely to trickle out from their line up of models rather than trickle in to become a regular feature of them all.

After giving optical finders a serve I must admit that they are very good and useful an many still prefer them but technically and price wise they owe more to nostalgia and it still can be done that way than a long term future. As long as photographers like them and buy them then they must continue to be made. However I suggest that the dslr viewfinder set up is still the very best for professional use, the RF still works, makes for a smaller camera body package, and looks great. Fuji's hybrid system is a great achievement, but a cheaper evf version will have the masses more excited. The vast bulk of the camera buying public not only don't mind even the current existing evf capabilities and in fact hardly care at all if the camera has an eye-finder of any type - being quite content with the lcd alone.

In this scenario Fuji are milking tradition but Sony are heading down the track of "electronics", along with Samsung and probably Ricoh as well. It would be a brave wager by Ricoh to lock their future into directly emulating Leica, a company that gets by on its reputation allowing it to charge whatever it likes to ensure a profit is made. Most camera companies have to price their product at a level that will sell in larger quantities. Would you buy a Ricoh at twice the price? It would still be cheaper than a Leica, and arguably just as good, if not serving a second purpose of being heavy enough to crack nuts with.

Lenses? Sony has shown directly, and other manufacturers indirectly, that the future of lenses is simpler, smaller and let the firmware correction take care of the imaging faults. Even now barrel distortion correction in-camera makes a mockery of the complex efforts of careful lens arrangements and precision grinding to achieve the same thing by the optical process alone.

As cheap firmware corrected lenses become better then highly technical mechanical-only lenses will become more rare and more expensive. Perhaps the vast majority of non-firmware corrected very capable lenses have already been made? This is the elephant in the lens-room. Ricoh gets some criticism over it's lens/sensor coupled modules because "tradition" says that you keep your lenses and just upgrade bodies. But what if each lens might need specific (to sensor?) in-body firmware correction. The Sony RX1 is perhaps the way of the future. Lens/body coupled and when it no longer suits there will be another one - at least the GXR system allows the camera back to be recycled.

Concurrent with the lens-firmware death lock increasingly matched to sensor is a cheap(er) constructed lens that is closer to throw-away. Compact cameras have been doing this for years, now more complex sub-professional cameras are coming into range. Many will shell out enough money to buy the (not cheap) RX1 in the full certainty that once the body no longer is technically current then the lens will be discarded with it. The lens of course would not be upgradable to a new body in any case as sensors and their controlling chips march on.

There will always be a market for high quality lenses that are stand alone, but even now Canon dslr bodies come with a database of "optimisations" in firmware for their lenses. Lenses that were designed in another age and were principally meant to be exchangeable over successive camera bodies. Many, if not most, Canon lenses have a heritage going back to slr days and the FD/FL where electronics and firmware correction were completely unknown. As cameras become more electronically sophisticated cheaper made lenses, designed by computers, made by robots, will be corrected to do things that even expensive lenses cannot do optically. Where to then? Do you persist in buying great mechanical lenses for new bodies that cannot compete with a cheap-made simple design lens that is lighter, cheaper and more automatically good. One that can be mated to a larger sensor in a smaller body?

Of course the current M mount module allows a whole raft of exquisite old lenses (that might work without firmware correction) to be mounted - every one of them is likely to have mechanically connected focus and aperture rings. The way the new lens manufacture process is spinning out making new mechanically connected lenses must be becoming less and less likely.

Make the most of what you see, future lenses are going to increasingly look quite different from what tradition tells us is necessary - much as optical viewfinders whilst useful are more a reflection of a photographic tradition that will surely die as those who have come to photography more recently through the use of lcd-only compact cameras will inevitably decide.

Whatever Ricoh have in store for us I am almost sure that it is not an uber-traditional Leica clone for those that think that a Ricoh is a cheap backup for their traditional shutter squeeze.

Another thing that is certain. (Say) it costs $400 to make a lens that currently sells for a "cheap" $800. I would surely be right to argue that a new lens built into camera, matched to sensor, smaller, lighter but with great performance might cost $40 in-camera, but the price will not come down - the lens component part will still be a cheap "$800". Until price competition brings it down? Get away .... cheap cameras are bound to be no good ... ask a Sony RX1 buyer, ask a Leica fan.

Cheap compact digital cameras ruined the profit margins in cameras, I think a new profit-centre is emerging.

If we laugh then I point out that the Pentax Q standard 50mm eq f1.9 prime lens is a lightweight plastic wonder. Takes great images even if it feels like it is made out of a milk container top. Turn off the image correction in camera and the barrel distortion is quite evident. Turn it on and the image seems perfect. Manual focus by wire and it feels tactile and excellent - a great little lens, I love it. Must be cheap as chips to make in Asia, check the stand-alone price for these lenses. The future is with us, I rest my case.

Tom
 
in my opinion a good electronical viewfinder is as good as a good optical one.

but the boss of ricoh photo does not like optical VF, for that reason i supposed that the new camera has an optical one.
 
sorry: i wanted to write:

but the boss of ricoh photo does not like electronical VF, for that reason i supposed that the new camera has an optical one.
 
xc1427":1afqitfx said:
Well, the interesting thing is that it is also mentioned "Besides, a Ricoh brand new camera will come". Since it is said to be BRAND NEW, i thought it will neither be a new GXR mount, nor a GRD 5
If its not grd5 or gxr they have lost the grip of reality. They have way too many systems on market already so they must be mad to introduce something totally new. Instead of this Ricoh should focus on how to cope with existing market and the demand for the ultimate p&s camera.
 
What do you mean by 'p&s' camera? As far I'm concerned neither the GXR or GRD4 are p&s. P&s does not equal compact. If you look at the various posts by the GRD/GXR users, program is hardly ever used and scene?? (which are the only p&s modes on these cameras in my mind).

Richard

PS, Tom wins the 'war & peace' post of the year award (all good stuff of course).
 
Back
Top