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The next Ricoh GR

I think we had a similar discussion about the GRD4 replacement. As I recall thoughts were along the lines of:

1 - a bigger sensor
2- an EVF or OVF either built-in (sacrifice the flash) or on the hot shoe or possibly an off camera remote EVF
3 - very split views about focal lengths. A strong input that to be a GRD it had to be 28 mm (although there was always the GR21 to dispute this) whereas some wanted 40 mm as an option
4 - possbily a monochrome version
5- imperative that the camera didn't grow in size or lose existing features such as 'snap'.

The GR clearly delivered on 1 and came close to 5. I think Tom is right; the GR is as big as it can get and still be that portable stealth camera

So, as Tom has repeated many times and has been supported by others on the forum, surely the way ahead to deliver 2, 3 & 4 is a 'GXR2'. There could even by a FF version based on an 'M' module (or even a PK module). The only bit of '5' that can't be done is the size but the GXR is still a cmpact system and only needs a small bag.

Richard
 
Thanks Richard,

I "solved" the size problem in my own inimitable way by designing two GXR camera back successors. Even if we only ever got one we might be happy.

1) as small as possible, no built in evf or tilt screen. Probabaly have to sacrifice the built in flash. Try and get the top of the camer as close to the GXR mount rails as possible - ie: something that is not that much bigger than the present GR in concept - but of course different modules would give widely different results. The S10 and P10 would immediately be more compact but I see their aging as being of no deep consequence - those that had them would have another outlet for these modules which still can take great images. As far as flash is concerned - I noted some talk of lcd based built in flash - such flash types could be squeezed into a smaller space than the present unit - so a flash might still be possible in this smaller camera back. The GXR of course has snap focus so that would continue.

And a tiny aps-c A12 mount module camera such as this would be very nice indeed.

2) a "size is not of the essence" GXR back with built in evf and til screen - still compact but more of the present GXR size with necessary adjustments.

Of course we would need some more modules. Currently I think that Ricoh needs an electronic short flange focal distance mount and I am suggesting that they pass on yet another short flange back mount and adopt the Sony E mount. I am sure that an "E mount consortium" would be more viable than the 4/3 consortium as it gives access to aps-c and FF sensor sizes.

Then build an electronic adapter tube to PK mount lenses - perfect.

Tom
 
To a large degree I will just be happy if Ricoh just keep making a GR II and keep updating the line with some if any of the upgrades we have mentioned here.
There is a need to continue to develop the camera though as the boundaries by phone cams are pushing from below.
 
At this moment, after reading several reviews and handling the camera myself, I can only ask for a few things:

  • A larger buffer. According to the performance tests of imaging resource (http://www.imaging-resource.com/PRODS/ricoh-gr/ricoh-grA6.HTM), the buffer fills up either after 20 large JPEGs, 4(!) RAW, or 4(!) RAW + large JPEGs. Given the file sizes, I calculated the buffer to be between 100 MB and 150 MB in size. I hope that we can get at least 5-7 RAW shots in a single second before waiting for the images to be written to SD card. If physical buffer cannot be increased, I do hope that Ricoh will allow for the internal storage of 54 MB to be used as a second, slower buffer in both cameras.

  • Make the trim ring a cap with a rubber seal to protect the sensor and extending lens from dust that can be sucked in. At least offer said trim cap as an accessory. If not, I'm looking at designing and printing my own for the current GR. This cap would not be needed should Ricoh implement the next item which is...


  • planet360 mentioned having the Foveon sensor in the next GR (http://ricohforum.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=72&t=11364#p63248). I'd like to see the next GR with the same Sony sourced sensor that current GR uses but with a X-Trans filter on top. That colour filter handles scenes with moire and low light levels very well from what I've seen myself. Biggest issue for either sensor setup for me would be lack of native support in darktable.
 
wimvangrinsven":tgpu6md3 said:
1. Weatherproof
2. Faster AF
3. Stabilization
4. Wifi
5. Same size!
Click to expand...

Weatherproof: Depends upon what is meant by "weatherproof" - Ricoh made a series of industrial level rugged (real) weatherproof cameras in earlier days, they were heavier, bulkier, more expensive and had slightly reduced performance. They sold in small numbers for probably these very reasons, but they were good. It might be difficult to fully weatherproof the GR lens.

Faster AF: bring back the pdaf window and auto-snap from the GRDIV?

Stabilisation: Bigger? Ricoh patented what looked like a stabilised module system for the GXR some time ago using the Pentax sensor based stabilisation. They could do it but it would have to be aps-c and probably as a GXR module.

Wifi: useful as much as headlight washers on cars are more useful to some than others.

Same Size: We could always wish, and any bigger and then even the biggest pockets would be too small.

Tom
 
I feel, POCKETABLE is the one of the power of GR. Without change in size, any improvement is nice.[GRINNING FACE WITH SMILING EYES]

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk
 
Tom Caldwell":3ar8677s said:
Wifi: useful as much as headlight washers on cars are more useful to some than others.
Click to expand...

Hehe :lol: , I found this funny as I've just sold off my old SAAB 9000 and that had headlight washers.
I never actually saw them move from the drivers seat.

Tom Caldwell":3ar8677s said:
Same Size: We could always wish, and any bigger and then even the biggest pockets would be too small.
Click to expand...

Thinking about size, the height and width of the current GR is about perfect for me, if anything I'd prefer to see the next one thinner [says me, who doesn't have to design it :oops: :lol: ]
 
thelps":3v2vevcn said:
Tom Caldwell":3v2vevcn said:
Wifi: useful as much as headlight washers on cars are more useful to some than others.
Click to expand...

Hehe :lol: , I found this funny as I've just sold off my old SAAB 9000 and that had headlight washers.
I never actually saw them move from the drivers seat.

Tom Caldwell":3v2vevcn said:
Same Size: We could always wish, and any bigger and then even the biggest pockets would be too small.
Click to expand...

Thinking about size, the height and width of the current GR is about perfect for me, if anything I'd prefer to see the next one thinner [says me, who doesn't have to design it :oops: :lol: ]
Click to expand...

Tim in some parts of the world headlight washers would be good but not around these parts and one might wonder what they might do to the headlights in a grasshopper plague ...

A far as "thin" goes - would thin as a mobile phone do?

Tom
 
- Bigger would be a big mistake, a big no no no as far I am concerned the smaller the better ! So make it smaller please if you can !
-The main reason I didn't buy it is one single focale length
- But there are few others reasons why I didn't buy : no tilting screen , no possibility to fix an EVF. But if EVF it has to be first rate !
- Pentax makes its cameras (helas not all) working with AA batteries, every camera should work with these batteries. I have a camera which sit here, the batteries do not hold the charge anymore, replacement is impossible to find. Two years ago when I stil could find it, it seems they made it out of gold ! Another reason for this is if you go somewhere where you cannot recharge your batterie, if you have with you some AA batteries you can operate. Common Ricoh do that for the next camera.
- May be a Fuji sensor for the next one. A Foveon sensor provide so much info that obviously the camera cannot be that responsive, and high ISO it's horrible, colour shifts even at base ISO etc.... it is not a good option.
- Full frame is expensive and not needed for 99% of us, it makes things bulkier, heavier, that's another wrong option.
- Otherwise, just change nothing, no touch screen, no stupid scene modes, no bullshit !
 
The previous models can use two AAAs for emergencies - 20 to 30 shots though my experience on the GX100 was a lot less. I'm guessing a pair of AAAs is just not powerful enough to feed the APS-C sensor. AAs will make the camera even bigger. ;)
 
N05J3W3":3et2s6af said:
I'm in the same camp: like the GR design at present, but would most like to see something evolve that was optimized for monochrome.
Click to expand...

I am definitely will buy this, I owned Leica M Monochrom, and I can see the beautiful dynamic range on its raw format. Ricoh should make GRM
 
sjm":1jqekvro said:
Digital Rev have discontinued the Ricoh GR.
Click to expand...

Jaw drops.

Maybe they just are not carrying it as stock? When it arrived Ricoh could not keep production up to demand.

There was one GXR M mount kit left in Hong Kong (out of five) at AUD$499 shipped and I got myself an A16 zoom kit for AUD$299 also shipped - one of eight, three left at last look (einfinityshop2). These are astonishing good prices even for the long in the tooth GXR models. Looked like a clean out of stock job to me.

What we don't know: is the last stcok being dumped because another model is on the way. Is the GR back in short supply simply because the production line, once (temporarily) caught up was switched to something else and the GR warehoused stocks have suffered? Or is it simply the end of the Ricoh camera experience? They have just had two successful models (GR and Pentax K3) and the Q was recently selling very well in Japan.

So what might really be happening is anyone's guess. However Ricoh changing the camera division name back to Ricoh Imaging and then exiting the Ricoh name form the camera market seems the oddest guess of several on offer.

Tom
 
I have though a lot about what the next GR might be like as well. Here are my thoughts.

I only carry compact cameras. I have no interest in interchangeable lenses and big camera bodies. I carry a compact with me at all times in my messenger bag, and these days it is either a GR APS-C or a Canon S120. I carry the GR when I know I am absolutely going to be taking pictures. Both cameras do what I need a camera to do; be readily available in my bag, work well in low natural light, and produce real world results in jpeg of the natural world close up. The GR captures better jpegs to my eye and of course greater detail. The Canon does a great job too, but can look a little to processed to me with it's new processor. The S95 images looked less so.

I take time to compose a shot and have no interest in getting lucky, burst modes or post processing. A camera acts as an extension of my ability to see what is in front of me and record it. The GR does that, perfectly.

What I like about the current GR is, well, everything. The sensor, the ergonomics, the menu, the lens and what to my eye is absolutely real world captures. It is perfect for me just the way it is. I don't know how it could be improved upon for my purposes. Sure, a full frame sensor might be a logical next step if the market demands it, but will it be a better camera as a result?

I have shown some of my GR images to friends who shoot big body cameras. In all cases they were blown away by the GR images, and even more so when I told them there were looking at jpegs.

A photographer is the real lens and the real sensor. If the camera captures what the photographer saw, that is a perfect camera for that photographer, assuming the photographer wants to record what was truly there. That is the current GR for me, which is why I bought two, just in case. :)
 
Without wishing to rat Ricoh's nest.

Whilst we are waiting for the next move on the GXR and we might be suffering from GAS syndrome the Panasonic GM1 could be seen as prototype for a new GXR that is smaller. It is quite a good little camera although it could still benefit from taking a few Ricoh lessons. Certainly it is more of a user's intelligent camera than the NEX6 from Sony that I use. The NEX6 takes good images - that part is not a problem with me.

I still think it would be possible to make a new GXR body roughly the size of the GR complete with mount rails to be backward compatible. Fitting in a flash unit might be a problem and there could be no built in evf.

However there have been mentions of work on lcd flash units which might help in that regard and also now that I have found the Clearviewer device I am less convinced that an evf is absolutely necessary if small size is the objective.

The GM1 has no evf and has no hot shoe either. You can get a tripod mount Clearviewer that is alway mounted and folds against the lcd but I did not like the fussiness (typical Tom) and so I have made up my own revised version that I have dubbed the VEfinder (Visual Enhancing finder) that turns the lcd into a giant evf and also naturally promotes the slr-style grip-stance. It has worked well for a trip to New Zealand to the point that the GM1 felt almost "naked" without the VEfinder attached. Of course it still works quite well with small lenses in acceptable light conditions without the VEf attached.

The lens part come off quickly and folds away in a very small space and the mount part on the GM1 folds back under the camera out of the way when not in use.

TomC
 
As new GR owner I can say that sensor size to camera size ratio is just about perfect. Just look at Fuji 100x with 35 lens. not exactly pocket cam and this without ridiculous 28mm converter. I would second quester in his quest for GR WR preferably with 21mm eq. lens and articulate LCD or in order to keep dowm complexity and size, a second tiltable display on top of camera ( 30x20mm would be enough for rough framing or settings checking). Meanwhile I would love a supercompact U/W housing with externally attachable semifish-eye and wide converters. To all other Ricoh FFramers I recommend analog GR 21 and 28. Can`t get smaller.
 
If Ricoh brought out a GR with a 40mm equiv. lens and with no change in camera size but with a built-in OVF it would appeal both to new customers as a unique - and ideal - compact as well as to existing ones wanting a second body.

40mm - the ideal focal length!
 
riccadonna":3br917kc said:
As new GR owner I can say that sensor size to camera size ratio is just about perfect. Just look at Fuji 100x with 35 lens. not exactly pocket cam and this without ridiculous 28mm converter. I would second quester in his quest for GR WR preferably with 21mm eq. lens and articulate LCD or in order to keep dowm complexity and size, a second tiltable display on top of camera ( 30x20mm would be enough for rough framing or settings checking). Meanwhile I would love a supercompact U/W housing with externally attachable semifish-eye and wide converters. To all other Ricoh FFramers I recommend analog GR 21 and 28. Can`t get smaller.
Click to expand...

Does this mean we can expect a GXR A12 28/GR comparison?

Richard
 
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