The curious A case

[Tom Caldwell]

After years and years of making a certain style of camera and virtually making the GRD a style of camera that has become its very calling card the GRDIV was apparently at the pinnacle of how far Ricoh might be able to take the small sensor concept. I think that Ricoh is proud of their mastery of the type and perhaps the pride might even be more important than the money. A showpiece of their mastery of this type of camera. I thought the GXR was also an unique masterpiece but that will be another story.

There has been a bit of biffo in the market for other cameras that Ricoh has made but these two types have largely had their little niche on their own.

And then Nikon had had the temerity to make the same logical successor to the GRDIV that was quietly being hatched by Ricoh. Accident or design we will never know but I think that the GR entry price was more a sign that Ricoh might not be slow in showing Nikon who owns this little niche. So thank Nikon for current pricing. This type of camera was logical enough it would not be unusual to see several players for this type, however the niche might be too small to be comfortable for too many players.

This is not a Ricoh triumphant as the Nikon A is obviously a fine and worthy camera. However the apparent demand for the GR seems to indicate that the long standing reputation of the GR's predecessors is not lost in the better researched buying public arena.

Lets hope it does not get too bloody, I would like to see more Ricohs on camera shelves.

Perhaps one of Ricohs strengths here is their well known ability to bring out regular firmware updates. So if there are glitches I think they will be fixed if we pass them on (politely). Ricoh will no doubt release improvements as well as any fixes necessary.

Tom

 

[riccadonna]

It`s still on short order in Denmark so I havn`t had pleasure to handle GR yet. I hope someone having GXR 28 and GR will send their impressions on comparison of AF in low light. Pity it doesn`t use batteries from GXR. And talking about the price difference, it`s a little bit stingy of Ricoh not supplying charger with camera. Extra expense for GRX user. Apparently they had GDRIV owners in mind. As to Nikon, I`d say, no war. Nikon owners will buy Coolpix A while Pentax afficionados will go for GR as the sensors match their bigger DSLR APS-C brothers/sisters.

 

[Tom Caldwell]

Business is going about with clubs wrapped in velvet.

Nikon has never been in this exact niche before. It is surprising that they bring out a product in an area where Ricoh has marked it out as their territory. I think there is real competition there.

Why? Of course we don't know. Making this type of camera is a natural thing to do. Nikon might well have thought that Ricoh as a camera company was finished and that they would just pick up a handy niche product area as their own. Give Sigma some trouble when they were at it. Nikon obviously didn't think the A would be a big seller and priced it high for a good margin. So they just wanted enough share to make the "GRDV" completely unprofitable and cause Ricoh to quit cameras altogether. It might even have been a surprise that Ricoh produced the GR so soon afterwards, but I think this was just too co-incidental to be an accident. Perhaps they also thought that they could get dslr-levels of profit on what is something more than your regular small camera point'n'shoot.

In any case Ricoh has come to market with aggressive pricing and seems determined that Nikon will not get foothold on their patch.

Whilst the GR is selling in quantity the price is right. Surprising that the demand seems so high world-wide, more than just regular Ricoh buyers must be "getting it". This must indicate that Ricoh had a respect far beyond its ownership circle which must be gratifying to the company and there is nothing like a keen entry price to start a gold rush. With a bigger user base those that are buying the camera because of price and curious-respect will soon enough start to be new permanent-converts.

I think Ricoh always has desired to be seen as a company that makes quality camera product. We know it but most still think of Nikon as the pinnacle of the dslr with grudging respect to that maverick - "Canon" and of course Leica is so respected in the RF field it can actually charge what it likes even though it is weaving a tortured course into the digital camera age.

However another reason might be deeper. As long as dslr cameras are sought after Nikon and Canon can maintain their cosy relationship and high margins. They must have looked over their shoulder when Ricoh bought Pentax. Pentax was floundering from lack of cash injection. With Ricoh's resource tail wagging the Pentax dog there is a possible strong further contender in the dslr field.

Canon have other resources and are busy chasing the high-end movie industry as their hope for selling ever more expensive lenses.

Nikon seems more stuck with traditional products and would be very vulnerable if Pentax made some excellent dslr cameras and came price-gunning for their market. The Nikon A might have been more of a shot across Ricoh's bows - if you start chasing our dslr market then we can make serious small cameras also, beware.

We might also wonder if Nikon sees the Pentax Q as a rival to their V series camera, or even if Pentax is working on a 1" sensor module or camera with replaceable lenses. If so then Nikon might have good reason to be nervous of a direct market assault by a more resource rich Pentax-Ricoh. Before this is poo-poohed consider that Panasonic, Sony and Samsung have carved out a substantial niche of the popular digital camera market coming from seemingly nowhere. None of these manufacturers has attacked the Canikon bastion of dslr where good profits still remain. If the Pentax dslr were to get a significant toehold in this sector the sales would have to come at the expense of one or other or both of the big players in that field.

Of course there is always my camera, my brand, forever. But the price performance equation always gets some backsliders. Nikon made the A at the price it is sold more to keep their Nikon buyers continue to buy Nikon but Ricoh has said "we want the market" and has priced accordingly.

We live in interesting times.

I am lucky, I have a few DB60/65 chargers already about the place. I have stocked up on DB65 clones now that I have realised about "the notch" I just have to find a way to mark them visually to be easily identified at a glance. Clone batteries and their chargers are quite inexpensive. Oem chargers and batteries probably cost Ricoh more. They have obviously stripped the package to allow the keenest pricing. If Nikon tries to make more volume by cutting prices and it starts working then Ricoh will keep the pressure up. Look forward to a Nikon A sell off in about 12/18 months time and some keenly priced Pentax dslr cameras not so far away - game-on I reckon. Strangely it seems that Nikon "started it" but maybe they know things we don't know.

Tom

 

[Dr Orloff]

You'd be right in thinking that the GRD series has a respect outside of its ownership circles. I had been thinking of one for a while, it was a toss up between the GRDIV, Pentax Q and Fuji X10. My gut feeling was the GRDIV but I could never find one in a shop to have a look at and in the end I went for a Pentax Q, since a tempting special offer came along which made it much more affordable than a GRDIV. However, the GR with APSC sensor now means it is just a question of when I get one, which is why I have joined this forum. I'm a Pentax dslr user and there is certainly a great deal of interest on various Pentax forums for the GR and the first adopters of the GR are very positive indeed.

 

[Tom Caldwell]

You'd be right in thinking that the GRD series has a respect outside of its ownership circles. I had been thinking of one for a while, it was a toss up between the GRDIV, Pentax Q and Fuji X10. My gut feeling was the GRDIV but I could never find one in a shop to have a look at and in the end I went for a Pentax Q, since a tempting special offer came along which made it much more affordable than a GRDIV. However, the GR with APSC sensor now means it is just a question of when I get one, which is why I have joined this forum. I'm a Pentax dslr user and there is certainly a great deal of interest on various Pentax forums for the GR and the first adopters of the GR are very positive indeed.

Welcome to the forum. I never could get interested in the Fuji. Interest does not just come from fine cameras as I am sure the X10 is, it is just that the Fuji-idea was not mine and I have too many brands of cameras anyway.

But I did get a Pentax Q. Fine camera, it allows me to indulge in my lens collection hobby intermixed with actually finding some tme to take a few photographs. But it does give me the opportunity to compare the Q with the GRDIV. The Q is a relatively configurable camera that does quite well for itself and the limitations of a smaller sensor. I like it a lot. But its configuration capability is only relative. Compared to the GRDIV the latter takes configuration to an almost unheard of level. Hard to explain but they are "apples and oranges" - the Q is still pitched at the slightly more involved tinkerer who will trade sensor for small size package that will not pose too many problems in set up and use. The GRDIV is enthusiast/professional level also with small sensor and refined construction and high resolution lcd screen. It has always been Ricoh's methed of demonstrating their technical prowess. I never really noticed the perfectly adequate lower resolution lcd screens until the GRDIII/GXR showed me just how useful they were. If there is anything I fret about with the Pentax Q is that the lcd resolution is not really good enough to get the best out of the focus peaking for manual focus. Similarly I don't think Fuji lcd screens would satisfy me although I have never tried them.

I think that you will enjoy the GR when you get one. Again Ricoh is making a technical camera statement here. Reviewers like to compare camera by camera on features, but as a total package the GR must be a standout and I am sure that at twice the price it would still be sought after. As it is Rioch is obviously out to sell a lot of these cameras and I think they will as the market realises what a little powerhouse this camera is (blush - and I have not even seen or held one yet!).

Ricoh cameras have been hard to find for some years. They tend to last and are mostly kept by owners and not churned over. Being relatively slow sellers as perhaps regarded complex and quirky by the average camera owner and a bit light on "popular features" with only a fixed wide lens in the GRDIV the camera has hardly ticked the boxes for dealers to carry them.

It hasn't the universal "name" of Leica and cannot therefore supply high margins on low sales turnover. Limited lens (actually a f1.9) but popular demand is for a zoom and there is no reckoning of how fast the zoom lenses are as f-stops are only a number to most. Discreet black body case and lack of prominent promotional stickers leaves it the wallflower in the showcase. Not selling on "cheap" either. So it is hard to sell and dealers equally hard to convince. Those customers who would at least like to see and try one out before they part with their money cannot find one to do so.

But to buy one of these cameras is to be converted and Ricoh converts don't need to see a new camera model to know from past experience that it is good. Therefore they are more willing to buy sight unseen.

Maybe this is changed with the GR - Ricoh seems to want this camera to be a success and the number of US residents who seem to have one already sems to indicate that they are now seriously interested in the US market.

I am in Australia and my GR is in the first batch made available here which as sold out before it landed - I might take delivery this week. It seems to be in short supply world-wide which must be gratifying for the company even if causing some temporary embarrassment.

One thing that the various G series Ricoh cameras have demanded and that their owner intends becomeing a serious camera user even if they have not already reached this status. They are an involved and involving camera that repay learning the configuration capability even if never (impossible) using it fully. The GRDIII/IV GXR and now the GR especially have the ability to be tuned to the user's personal style more than any other camera I know.

This is their standout capability. They are very good technical cameras as well and designed to be lasting rather than fashionable. Therefore they are probably more appealing to those that think about their photography rather then those that just want to take photographs.

Tom

 

[paulyrichard]

Welcome to the forum Dr', it's good to see you here and considering buying a GR...