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Ricoh CRX/A12 50mm AF experience question?

brew

New Member
Hello everybody,
The Ricoh CRX/A12 50mm seems an interesting camera/lens combination; relative compact, lightweight, low noise levels, but I'm concerned about the AF-speed. I read in the dpreview review: 'the camera is slightly let down by its AF speed', 'Contrast detect AF slow, hunting and occasionally unreliable in anything but good light'.
How are the experience here in real life with the Ricoh CRX/A12 50mm? Is this camera/lens combination suitable for street photography?
 
Hi brew and welcome on board! A12 AF is really a problem in anything but good light and reasonable contrast scenes. Under the limited light and medium/low contrast it hunts a lot and often locks with completely wrong focus. So I don't think it's very good option for fast scenes. You may be more lucky with Snap focus. But Snap focus with APSC requires much more practice than for example Snap with small sensor due to significantly smaller DoF of APSC sensor. I heard some rumors about upcoming GXR FW with some improvements in AF area. But we will not know until it appears ;) I guess the new GXR FW is a matter of days/weeks. So maybe you can wait a bit with your decision?
 
Thank you Pavel. You're are realy honest in your comment. Let's hope that the firmware gives a real AF improvement.
 
It's funny that DP review would publish their review criticizing the AF (and unfortunate for Ricoh) if only a few weeks later a FW update would be available to significantly improve the AF performance.

I hope it happens, as I like macro photography and I'm tempted by the lens (and the whole GXR system) but the AF problems are a real showstopper.
 
I personally doubt there will be a significant AF speed difference with new FW. OK, I believe the A12 AF can be made faster and much more precise. But I rather keep my expectations low ;) Macro lens construction will always slow the things down. Another thing that may be a cause of AF slowdown could be the fact, that most of current CMOS/CCD sensors works with max. refresh rate around 30fps. Most probably including the CMOS used in A12. Only the latest LiveMos in Panasonic GF-1 is capable of 60fps frame rate. And this could be a reason of significant AF speed advantage of GF-1 over all existing mirror-less solutions and even many DSLR cameras in live-view AF mode.

Let's wait and hope ;) I'm sure that if Ricoh will release new FW with significantly improved AF, DPReview guys will eventually update their review.
 
AF with the A12 is really a problem. When it locks correctly the images are simply beautiful. But even in good light it is unreliable. As much as I love the GXR/A12 the AF is a serious problem. Snap focus with a large sensor requires far more precision. The MF assist needs improvement too. I think that Pavel is right that AF needs good light and strong contrast to work best.

The GXR/A12 is a frustrating camera. The results are stunning when it works correctly, but focus needs improvement. The GRD cameras are effortless to use. The GXR is far more challenging.

I hope that focus can be improved FW and that it is not a hardware issue.

BTW I've been using my GRD3 a lot lately and realizing what a great camera it is! Lets hope that evolution of the GXR line brings the same experience.
 
I think we need more than just improved AF. What would be great would be faster to use MF. The need to rotate the ring several times to move focus from 30cm to Infinity is simply frustrating. What we need is an "Fast MF" mode that would make the response of focus ring 2x or even 4x faster. Just the speed that would allow us to focus between the 30cm and Infinity with just one turn of the focus ring (instead of several turns).

The workflow could be as follows...

- Turn the focus ring to start the MF (at normal speed)
- Now at any time of MF press and hold a defined button with assigned "Fast MF" function (FN1/FN2, zoom button or any other easy to reach button) >> this should increase the speed of MF. Releasing the button should return the speed of MF to its original speed (with finer steps).

Of course, the "Fast MF" option would make the manual focus less precise, but much faster when one needs to jump between two too far focus distances.

Another "nice to have" feature would be an option to switch the camera to MF mode by rotating the MF ring. In other words, without the need to switch the camera to MF before using the ring.

And in addition to the previous feature wish, it would be nice to have also automatic enlargement of the central part of screen (when rotating the MF ring). And with an option to set the scale of central part of screen to 200% (current value) and 400%, maybe even 800%. This would be a great helper for manual focusing. 200% scale is often not enough.

I think all these options will greatly improve the usefulness and easy of use of MF mode? What do you think?
 
Hi all,

I think, Pavel gave already a very good account of what the issues with A12 focusing are. I also agree with him regarding manual focus: I also find the manual focusing too slow because of the many turns you have to make.

Pavel also wrote: Another "nice to have" feature would be an option to switch the camera to MF mode by rotating the MF ring. In other words, without the need to switch the camera to MF before using the ring.

This is a feature that I know a "direct manual focusing" (DMF) from my Minolta Dimage cameras (7, 7i, A1, A200). You can override the autofocus by manually turning the focus ring.
The A12 has in fact a similar feature - provided you enable it: In the Setup menu there is the item "Focus ring settings" (the bottom item). If offers the settings "AF+MF", which corresponds to DMF, and "MF only." I set it to "AF+MF" (forgot what the default is...). Of course, if you release and press the button again, the manual setting is lost. In my German A12 manual this is described on page 21.

I have never checked the enlargement feature -- have to do that, too...

Best regards,
Gerd

BTW: I will have a hip surgery next week and probably be "quiet" for quite some time (depending on whether I can access my computer and the Internnet or not...)
 
odklizec":33rl2gsp said:
... What would be great would be faster to use MF. The need to rotate the ring several times to move focus from 30cm to Infinity is simply frustrating. What we need is an "Fast MF" mode that would make the response of focus ring 2x or even 4x faster. Just the speed that would allow us to focus between the 30cm and Infinity with just one turn of the focus ring (instead of several turns).

The workflow could be as follows...
- Turn the focus ring to start the MF (at normal speed)
- Now at any time of MF press and hold a defined button with assigned "Fast MF" function (FN1/FN2, zoom button or any other easy to reach button) >> this should increase the speed of MF. Releasing the button should return the speed of MF to its original speed (with finer steps).
DM: How about a MF control-ring "velocity" sensor"? A rotation of the ring greater than a certain "threshold" (of some fairly small number of degrees per unit time) could automatically increase the scale-factor (the rate per unit time) that the MF focus-distance increases by. At any time following the original "triggering", a manual rotation of the ring by the user (by an amount smaller than this same "threshold") in either direction on the part of the user would return rate at which the MF focus-distance changes to the original (default) rate. Thus, the user could "slew" upwards/downwards in MF focus distance by rotating the control ring by an amount (somewhat) greater than a typical "fine MF focus tuning", and then slow back down to the normal "fine-tuning mode" by simply rotating the MF control ring by a slight amount (in either direction). Then (once close to the target MF focus-distance), the MF distance could be (normally, as before) "fine-tuned" to the target adjustment value ...

The only possible "down-side" might be if the user (mistakenly) exceeds the "threshold", causing the MF distance to suddenly "zoom" off to unwanted settings. A (short) "waiting-period" (prior to the beginning of such a suggested "rate-change") could be implemented. If the user (during the "waiting period") adjusts the focus-ring in the opposite direction from the original (possibly unintended) direction, then the mode would not change - and the user (who is at such a time, presumably, near the MF focus-distance where they want to be) could continue to perform the MF "fine-tuning". If further changes in the position of the MF control-ring (during such a "waiting-period") were in the same direction as the original movement, the camera would assume that the user does (in fact) wish to proceed with such an "expedited" process as is described above. Once the MF focus-distance adjustment rate has switched into the "fast" mode, any small adjustment (in either direction) would defeat the "fast" mode, and return the MF focus-distance to the normal ("fine-tuning") mode ... :p

odklizec":33rl2gsp said:
Of course, the "Fast MF" option would make the manual focus less precise, but much faster when one needs to jump between two too far focus distances.
DM: It seems like this would not be the case if the above proposal was implemented. It would be the "best of both worlds".

odklizec":33rl2gsp said:
Another "nice to have" feature would be an option to switch the camera to MF mode by rotating the MF ring. In other words, without the need to switch the camera to MF before using the ring.
DM: That sounds good ... but what about unintended "nudges" that were not intended to switch the camera into "MF mode"?

odklizec":33rl2gsp said:
And in addition to the previous feature wish, it would be nice to have also automatic enlargement of the central part of screen (when rotating the MF ring). And with an option to set the scale of central part of screen to 200% (current value) and 400%, maybe even 800%. This would be a great helper for manual focusing. 200% scale is often not enough.
I think all these options will greatly improve the usefulness and easy of use of MF mode? What do you think?
DM: On my Panasonic DMC-FZ30 and FZ50, I always set it up to enlarge the small rectangular focus-rectangle to full-frame (which is far more than 200%). The other option is simply not at all sufficient to be able to really get the focus right. Now, the FZs only have a 2.0 Inch diagonal LCD, but (even in the case of a 3 Inch LCD) I would think that the same would remain true. I always use my times 1.5 magnification reading glasses when doing this on the FZs (thus, optically equivalent to a 3.0 Inch LCD), and I would say that the magnification of the focus-rectangle to full-frame it the minimum "zoom magnification" necessary to tweak the manual focus distance (with the 10 Mpixel image-sensor on the FZ30/50). The "pixelization effect" at that rather high magnification factor actually helps me to find the highest resolution setting of the FZ30/50 manual focus ring ... :p
 
Gerd,

I hope that all goes well with your surgery, and that you are able (to the greatest extent possible) to comfortably recover from the procedure!

Best Wishes,

DM ... :)
 
Pavel,

What do you think of the MF control-ring "velocity sensor" mode-control idea? I think that it might have real possibilities ... I'm curious to hear your thoughts ... :)
 
Thank you all for your comments. Conclusion: the AF of the Ricoh CRX/A12 50mm is still unreliable. I wait for a while before I possibly buy this camera combination.
 
Good luck on your hip surgery, Gerd - I haven't been on the forums in a long time, this is the first I've read about it. Did you have a fall?
 
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