quick test of GXR + A12 + VF2 + GF1 - what should I test?

[odklizec]

Hi folks,

Thanks to generous offer of Ricoh Europe, I will have an opportunity for time limited test of GXR with some accessories. Because of limited number of available GXR samples and high demand for them, I will have it only for three days. It's pretty short time to test everything and I cannot promise I will test everything you suggest. At least not right now I may get another sample for long term test when the situation with samples improves. But at the moment, it's hard to tell an exact date.

I should have the first GXR sample sometime early next week. Bad timing, because I will have to go to work and no chance I can leave it before sunset (except short lunch break). So I suppose most of my test photos will be done mainly under the low light and at high ISO. I'm also planing to do an AF test and compare the AF speed and reliability with GRDIII and let's say CX2. But nothing scientific. My aim will be to take as many photos as I can and probably later (with second sample) do some more thorough tests.

So if there is anything I can test for you (something that was not yet covered by available previews), feel free to let me know!
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INITIAL COMMENTS:
07/12/2009
While I'm waiting to complete the charging process, here are some initial comments...

So far I'm impressed with GXR build quality and feeling in my palms. It's very nice shaped, everything is in reach of my right thumb, of course, except the Direct, Open flash and VF/LCD buttons located on the left side of the camera body.

A12 module slides in the body very easily a the connection is assured with solid (but not obtrusive) click. There is no wobbling at all. Wverything is tight and very solid. What I miss are the skid-proof rubber "buttons" at bottom of the camera body (available on GRDII and III).

The EVF is huge and looks somewhat inappropriate and bulky if attached on the camera. On the other hand, its viewable area looks significantly larger than the viewable area of my old (already gone) E400 OVF. Can't wait to see its resolution. It's huge, but very nice to use with clear image and it's pleasant to use for manual focusing.

The overall size of GXR+A12 (-EVF) is not THAT much larger than GRDIII + attached wide angle lens. I don't have third camera with me right now, so I will post a comparison photo later today, when I return home from work. But I can easily put it in my coat pocket, the same as I'm able to do this with GRD + GT/GW lens. Sure, it's not very comfortable, mainly because of the weight. I would not do it frequently, mainly because I'm carrying camera and other things in GB1, which is always with me But it's OK solution if you quickly need free hands or for short trips.

What I (traditionally) don't like is the rear rocker. I'm sorry, but replacing the click-wheel with rocker was very bad idea. Even non-clickable wheel would be better than click-rocker.

That's all for now. More comments will follow when the battery charges up.
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The battery charged in about 2 hours. I would strongly recommend to get at least one spare battery.
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08/12/2009
AF speed is a mixed bag. In high contrast scenes it seems to be faster than GRDIII, which is not bad at all! The AF speed goes down hill in case of medium-low contrast scenes (seems to be below GRDIII AF speed). And it's really slow and sometimes completely fails to focus (or hunt for it) in low contrast scenes. Macro mode AF is even slower. What's big disappointment for me, Macro AF is very loud for my taste. I will try to prepare the usual audio preview/sound waves with example of AF speed (compared with GRD).

Another disappointment for me is somewhat too loud shutter. It's much louder than GRDIII or GX200 shutter. True, it's much less audible than DSLR mirror slap But it's noticeable and somewhat distracting. It's not audible in busy places, but it may be noticeable in silent areas! It's definitely something I would like to see improved in next APSC based lensors.

And my third disappointment is speed of Continuous mode in RAW. I believe I somewhere read that the A12 is capable of 3fps in RAW+JPEG mode? The truth is it's around 2.35fps in RAW and around 3fps in JPEG. 3fps is nothing particularly astounding but acceptable in this class of camera. But 2.x fps performance is just a disappointment. At least for me.

I love CX1/CX2 continuous mode performance and I would like to see the same level of speed also in GXR APSC modules (current or future). Unlike GRDIII/S10 sensor, where the speed of continuous mode is limited by sensor specs, APSC used in A12 should be physically capable of much higher continuous speed. Sony A500 DSLR (most probably the same APSC) is capable of 5fps. I would accept 3fps and would be really happy with 4fps. But 2.xfps is not very practical.

On the positive side, I'm more than pleased with A12 image quality. Of course, I would need some more time for optimizing the JPEG based settings (contrast, saturation). But I like GXR JPEGs even with default settings and I see nothing wrong in RAW. And B&W from A12 seems to be true return to GRDI film-like B&W. I'm yet to try ISO3200 but ISO1600 BW shots are gorgeous. I will soon post some photos. But everything you saw up to now (at other webs) is true! A12 is really THAT good
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09/12/2009
So far I'm very pleased with A12. The image quality is great. Of course, if properly focused and with correct exposure. People used in huge depth of field from GRD/GX will be confused and maybe even disappointed by completely different workflow and the need of precise focusing. I'm afraid, the Snap focus is almost completely useless with A12 and in low light conditions, where you are forced to use f2.5 and ISO3200. The DoF is just too small (especially with wide open lens) to even think about regular use of Snap focus. At least not without precise measure of distance and keeping the same distance all the time. Even few cm away from the ideal distance leads to out of focus rendering.

Manual focusing is great, but of course, somewhat slower. The focus by wire is not that bad as I would expect! Focusing ring is very responsive and very precise. One my colleague with DSLR (hi Orol!) was pleased by the feel and responsiveness of A12 focus ring. Completely different feeling than with his DSLR lens.

As I mentioned in my previous comment, the AF speed is a mixed bag. In case of contrast situations and enough lightning, it's very fast. But once the contrast/light fell down, the speed of AF gets noticeable slower and sometimes even fail to focus. GRDIII AF is in this aspect much better performer. No problem to lock the correct focus even under dim light. Most probably due to higher depth of field?

What I miss on GXR+A12 is distance/DoF preview bar in AF mode with enabled MF (via focus ring). In this mode, one can half press the shutter to let the camera to focus and then with half pressed shutter rotate the focus ring to re-adjust the focus. It would be very useful to see the distance/DoF bar in this mode. Currently, it's only available in MF mode.

In addition, it would be nice to have an option to assign some functionality to "Zoom" button. With A12 lensor, the zoom button is only usable in playback mode. But there is no zoom button functionality in record mode! It's like not having this button, which is a pity because it would be great to have another customizable button (actually two custom buttons - Up and Down)?

Unfortunately, I had no chance to try the GF1 (external Flash) as I just yesterday realized that one of my rechargeable batteries is dead, which left me only three batteries. And there is no chance I can try it today. But what can I say about it, it's HUGE. I mean, it's very well build and most probably powerful flash! But the size is a problem. What we need for GRD and GXR is just a small (less than half of GF1 size) flash with bouncing head and powered by just two AA batteries. Something like Nikon SB-400. It does not need to bee too powerful. Just enough to enlighten small rooms by bouncing the flash from ceiling.

Here you can hear the A12 AF performance and compare it with GRDIII AF. Each file contains 5 half shutter presses for high contrast, medium contrast and low contrast situation. In third file you can compare the loudness of A12 vs. GRDIII shutter.



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13/12/2009
During my short opportunity to test the GXR + A12 I took also one HD video. Although the quality of video is nice, the absence of stabilization makes it slightly jerky. However, the main problem seems to be in the impossibility to focus during the video recording. Disabled AF and zoom during video recording is nothing uncommon in digital cameras. And I understand that continuous AF would most probably be impossible with A12 because it's too slow and sometimes also too loud so the sound of AF motor would most probably be recorded in the video. However, I think at least manual focus should be allowed? It's not that loud and it would be better than nothing.

Here is the short HD video:
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1711162/GXR_tes ... 010386.AVI
It's taken at ISO3200 so it appears noisy. But it's not a problem. Impossibility to focus during the video recording seems to be much worse difficulty.

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Here are some initial photos (high ISO B&W).




Full resolution files (JPEG + DNG) can be downloaded here:
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1711162/GXR_test/a12/a12_bw_high_iso.zip

Second batch of samples:




Full resolution files (JPEG + DNG) can be downloaded here:
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1711162/GXR_test/a12/gxr_various.zip

Third and last batch of samples:








Full resolution files (JPEG + DNG) can be downloaded here:
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1711162/GXR_test/a12/a12_night_streets.zip

Some raws processed in Silkypix PRO:










Here are some comparison shots/details of GXR + A12 (sorry for bad and sometimes soft images full of unwanted shadows )










And one just for fun...

 

[silverbullet]

Hi Pavel,

pls. test the AF speed with the A12 under low light.
Thks.
Bernd

 

[johnny9fingers]

Hello Pavel,
Please test the auto exposure settings under challenging conditions, such as backlit subjects, weird light angles, brightly lit subjects, and any others you may think of and have time for.
Thank you for taking the time to test the GXRsystem for us. I'm excited to see what it can do.
Thanks,
John

 

[markus.heinisch]

Hi Pavel,
thanks for asking!!
Well, can you do the GRD I-II-III test photos wit hthe A12 again. I mean, it would be very helpfull to have some known photos to compage the quality? In general, I'm interessted in image quality stuff like dynamic range, sharpness and visual noise ans AF speed.

enjoy the camera!

Thanks, Markus

 

[odklizec]

Bernd:
Sure thing! A12 AF is one of the main things I want to test.

John
I'm afraid, my tests will most probably be limited to low light photography. But I will of course try to take some daylight photos with challenging lightning.

Markus
I'm sorry, but I will most probably be unable to take the comparative shots with other cameras. Maybe something quick with GRDIII, but that's all. I will have only three days and even these three days will not be full due to my work In addition, comparing A12 with GRDIII will not be fair because of different sensors and optics. But I hope to get the second sample with both A12 and S10 modules so I will surely do the comparative test of S10 with all three GRDs.

 

[johnny9fingers]

Thanks Pavel, I appreciate you taking the time to do these tests......
John

 

[Takadanobaba]

Hi pavel,

My big question with the A12 Module is :

with multi AF :
I want to see a GXR A12 photo, of a person in movement, you are in movement to when you taken the photo !
You don't Have the time to take shot, you push full the shutter...

I have GR II And CX1 And is good With Mutli AF at 28 mm for taken people in movement and I'm in movement to for take the picture !

Example here I am in movement for taken the picture


second question :
Hi want you talk about your impression of "PRE AF"

Thank Pavel good test

 

[dearxh]

wow! I can not wait to see your test! Although I am sure that I can not afford a GXR, I really want to see the difference between GX200 and GXR. So I really want to see the image quality in low light condition.

 

[thelps]

I'm probably mainly interested to see how both lenses perform wide open, max aperture at all ISOs. Some macros would be interesting but we know Ricoh's excel at them anyhow so I don't think there will be any surprises there.

 

[waloszek]

I am mostly interested in a (subjective) judgement about how much the GXR S10 module is an improvement regarding the GX100/200. From what I learnt up to now, high ISO performance is much better -- and that is really good news, because I was not impressed with my GX100/200 in that respect... Another issue was the painfully slow autofocus in macro mode, but that's not a suitable topic for night shots... Finally, corner sharpness could be an issue: My GX100 was perfect, the GX200 only to a lesser degree, and I sent most of our R/C's to Pirmasens (with little success...), because the corners (and more) were fuzzy.
Best regards, Gerd

 

[odklizec]

Unfortunately, this "limited-time" test sample will arrive without S10 module. Just A12, viewfinder and external flash. At least for now. I was told that I should get another sample when the situation improves. From what I heard, there is high demand for GXR (both modules). So as you can imagine, the main priority for Ricoh is to fulfill all pre-orders. Especially now before the Christmas So I guess the long-term samples will be available sometime early next year?

 

[purpledot]

Although it may be difficult given the time of year and you mainly testing it after hours, it would be very beneficial to find out how the viewfinder works in strong sun - the one I have in my GX100 is useless when the sun is blazing.

Enjoy the testing - I know you will

 

[odklizec]

The GXR arrived! The battery is charging now and I can't wait to take the first photo Follow the initial post for some comments.

 

[pollobarca]

Lucky You! I am looking forward to seeing the pix.
paul

 

[thelps]

I am mostly interested in a (subjective) judgement about how much the GXR S10 module is an improvement regarding the GX100/200. From what I learnt up to now, high ISO performance is much better -- and that is really good news, because I was not impressed with my GX100/200 in that respect... Another issue was the painfully slow autofocus in macro mode, but that's not a suitable topic for night shots... Finally, corner sharpness could be an issue: My GX100 was perfect, the GX200 only to a lesser degree, and I sent most of our R/C's to Pirmasens (with little success...), because the corners (and more) were fuzzy.
Best regards, Gerd

I like Gerd's thinking here, if the GXR is to be a 'replacement' for the GX100/200 at least with the S10 module then a comparison would be interesting and a valid question.

 

[Reelacks]

Hi Pavel,Apart from most of the above requests,i would be interested to know how easy is manual focusing through the VF2?And particularly in low light situations.Thanks in advance. Tony.

 

[JRS11]

Thanks Pavel, wish you would have had the S10 module to try. I expect the press will slam this camera if the AF is slow (compared to a DSLR) and it is a Ricoh, not one of the big boys....time will tell......tell me about your feeling of the size in your hands compared to the GRD?

Thanks much as always

Joel

 

[odklizec]

Hi Joel,

I hope to get both modules for long-term test sometime later when the initial buying madness will get over Form what I heard, there is huge demand for GXR. And so there is not enough number of sample cameras.

GXR+A12 fits nicely in my palm. Probably even better than GRD+GW lens. Most probably because of size of GXR grip. The size is very well balanced and I can hide the camera in my autumn coat. Of course, without EVF. But it's definitely pocketable and without making the pocket too bulky and noticeable.

True, the A12 AF speed is on the slow side. But again, I'm quite sure it's mainly because of the Macro nature of A12 lens. Ricoh already proved (with CX1/2 and GRDIII) that they can do pretty fast contrast detection based AF. So all they need to do is to release another APSC based (non-macro) module. I'm quite sure this new module will be very fast AF performer.

But even despite slower AF and in my opinion somewhat underpowered speed of RAW continuous mode, A12 is a dream camera! If properly focused and exposed and with some fine tuning of JPEG settings, there is no problem using all ISO values and even without the need to go to RAW. I'm a RAW freak, but I like what I see in A12 JPEG. I will most probably still use RAW. But I would not mind to switch to JPEG in case of low space on SD card.

On the other hand, I would not recommend A12 to people used in small sensor DoF and to people who relies on Snap focus. Sadly, my trial time is almost over so I have no chance to try it side by side with GRDIII (in terms of usability to capture fast actions and scenes without the time to focus properly). But from what I saw up to now, I think the GRDIII will most probably beat A12 in this particular area. Maybe it was just my inexperience with A12 (due to short time of use), but I was unable to take a reasonable sharp photo of Lucia in movement. Something that was not problem with GRDIII and f1.9. Simply, the GRDIII DoF is often a serious advantage. But when it comes to portraits and the need to separate subject from background (and high ISO usability) there is no contest. A12 is a clear winner here.

 

[JRS11]

Thanks Pavel...the dilemma of course is that you can have one body to put the S10 on (some reports say it is as good as the GRDlll, some say not), and then you can maybe get a 35mm or 40mm non macro prime (I hope one day with an aps sensor, or 28 or whatever). For me macro is a non issue and I do not take pictures of my food before eating it . This camera still interests me, the GRDlll size is a perfect size but if I put on the 21 no more, and there is no 40mm for it as there was for the l and ll. So I am waiting for a trial unit from Popflash, I sure hope they get them sooner than later but I am waiting and not buying either. You would think with the price so high that Ricoh would do something for early adopters.

Thanks again

Joel

 

[dearxh]

great! Hope more samples!
Btw,what is the difference between s10 and a12? Is there any noise when you turn on the camera? And how long is it from pressing the power button to completely usable?