Purchasing advice: Ricoh GR vs. Fuji X100S

[dav1d]

Dear Ricoh-Fans,

i need your advice since i also need a new camera.

Until recently i used a Pentax K5 - and was very happy with it. A fantastic camera, i had nearly nothing to pick at during my time using it. However, i just didn't use it that very often. I think it is because the camera was always additional bagadge that couldnt just fit into my pocket.Thus i think that i need something smaller.

And since APS-C-sensors now fit into small camera-bodies i quickly encountered 2 cameras of interest: the Ricoh GR and the Fuji X100S. At the moment i tend to prefer the X100S, but i'm not quite sure. That's where you all come in. So, in detail i hope that we could discuss the following aspects:

• Size: The obvious advantage of the Ricoh compared to the Fuji: It would fit into my jeans pocket! However, i would probably be to afraid to transport it "unprotected", therefore putting it in a bag/pouch. That would mean no pocket-fit - advantage obsolete?
• IQ: From my view the Fuji scores here. And that's why: I'm always to lazy to process and develop RAW-Files. It is said that the JPEG-output of the Fuji is pretty usable, others say it's fantastic. Also i like the film-mode imitations: Velvia, Astia, Provia etc. The Ricoh, on the other hand, should produce outstanding BW-results - also in JPEG?
• Viewfinder: The Fuji has one, the Ricoh doesn't. I don't like to hold the camera away from my body - doesn't this aspect counteract the whole "stealthy"-praise of the Ricoh? However, one can purchase an optional optical viewfinder for the Ricoh. How does ist work and perform - is it just a simple spyhole? How should I focus when there is no additional information provided in the viewfinder. In a review on YouTube the guy mentioned the possibility of snapfocus in combination with hyperfocal range - i just can't image how that would work in practice?
• Handling/Performance: This is where the Ricoh gets all the praise. One-hand-operation, quick simple control layout etc. Yet i don't like the fact that i have to look at the back lcd to view all my information: aperture, shutter speed, iso etc.
• Resale price: Advantages for the Fuji?

I look forward to your critical input, thanks in advance!
david

 

[ycp13]

Hi,

some points from my side. I had similar situation, actuallyd decided to go for X100s.
BUT i own GRD4 from December last year. Carried in trousers pocket most of the time, often also loose in the bag. No issues so far. So I changed my mind and took GR.
I give GR same treatment; too early to say anything more than indeed it fits my pockets, and is available immediately when needed.
But if you go for viefinder, the size advantage is gone.

I don`t have viefinder, after GRD4 experience, I can change settings based on number of clicks. Plus Fn1/Fn2 up to the taste - and without checking, you set most important parameters within 1 sec, 2 sec max.

JPEG IQ - somehow Fuji in color is better. BW - too early to say, just impression GRD4 was handling BW jpegs bit better. Hard to compare as both sensors are very different, and I`m biased to GRD4.
RAW - GR rocks, you can do amazing things with raw file. Presets from LR make it couple of clics work. No hassle.

Resale: most likely Fuji will be better. NEW GRD4 in July was half price of what I paid for mine in December last year.

Hope it helps!

 

[aleksanderpolo]

Size: If it is not pocketable, I think it doesn't make a lot of difference whether GR+case is 50% the size of x100s+case. But the GC-5 belt case is really nice looking

IQ: It's personal taste. With the raw development options in GR you can customize a lot of parameter for your liking. Personally I shoot raw so I couldn't care less about jpeg. The positive film setting is very nice though...

Viewfinder: Nothing scream "Look at me I am going to take a picture" than to bring a camera to your face IMHO. So I think the lack of viewfinder actually adds to the stealthiness. You might have seen this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JKbFAPq75UI
Also, the LCD is quite viewable in all lighting condition I used, so an OVF is not needed. If you want to, you can add a hotshoe OVF, it will be a dumb one without shooting info though.

Handling: It's also personal. Some like the aperture/shutter speed/exp comp knob. I don't like the need to check on them to make sure they don't get knocked to random position when I take the camera out. On GR you can save the aperture, focus distance on MY setting. So when you turn on the camera, it will be at exactly the setting that you want. I have 5m manual focus distance when I turn on the camera, one button press it is in AF mode with a snap focus distance of 1m, don't even need to look at anything to know the exact settings.

Resale: x100 is currently selling for around $600 used, so in 3 years it drop about $600 or 50%.

I think in the end, it comes down to personal preference and whether you want to have the hybrid EVF/OVF.

Cheers,

 

[streetshooter]

First and most important consideration is Focal Length. As much as the 2 can do equally, they see different. How do you see?

 

[milesteg]

In my opinion the best camera is the one you have with you. Therefore I chose the GR and have been carrying it in my front jeans pocket since. It's the only one that can fit. Never had anything happen to it and the simple fact that it's always there made me take a lot more pictures.

The tech specs can be argued but the GR is by no means a compromise and it is the most pocketable capable compact hands down. The Fuji X100 I had to carry in my backpack but if I do that I might as well take my DSLR along.

 

[thelps]

In my opinion the best camera is the one you have with you. Therefore I chose the GR and have been carrying it in my front jeans pocket since. It's the only one that can fit. Never had anything happen to it and the simple fact that it's always there made me take a lot more pictures.

The tech specs can be argued but the GR is by no means a compromise and it is the most pocketable capable compact hands down. The Fuji X100 I had to carry in my backpack but if I do that I might as well take my DSLR along.

First and most important consideration is Focal Length. As much as the 2 can do equally, they see different. How do you see?

These two quotes are very valid +1 from me.
I also lugged my X100 in backpack (with other items).

I had an X100 (sold in favour of a DP2M) and have all the GRs. I agree the X100 jpgs are eminently usable out of camera. For my print size I often just used a jpg.
The X100 was a goto camera for doing a job, at someone's wedding, party or when out actively taking images. The GR range is my come along no matter what. I often get weight lazy and just take a GR to actively take images. I see they are more complimentary cameras. I had both for a long while. The VF on the X100 gave me a high number of good hits. I'd suggest keep both, take one, then the other and sometimes both. I did.

 

[Spode]

I own a GRD IV, GR, K-5 and X100 (recently purchased as it was going for a steal).

IQ: First, if you have some great glass (say 43mm Ltd, 21mm Ltd, etc.) the K-5 will outshine all of these in a heartbeat. If you are willing to shoot in RAW or restrict yourself to JPEG in good light. the GR is a match for the X100 and i assume the X100s. If you are a JPEG shooter, the X100s is your best bet.

Size: Nothing like the GR

Handling/ Performance: Nothing like the GR

Viewfinder: The VF on the X100/ X100s is fantastic, but once you get used to snap focus and a voigtlander or other 28mm (3:2) viewfinder, it really doesn't matter.

FOV: As Don pointed out, this is critical ... though the GR allows you the option of shooting at 35mm (11MP) if you so choose.

Last but perhaps critical ( my personal experience) ... if you love street, abstract, landscape, macro ... my advice would be to go for the GR. If you like portrait, travel, documentary ... go for the X100s.

 

[dav1d]

Thank you all for your honest and balanced replies - greatly appreciated!

I think i will first go for the GR, try to learn more about RAW processing and invest my spare money in a good pc monitor. Then, same time next year, when a long US-wedding trip awaits us, maybe i'll give the Ricoh to my fiancée and buy the X100S, which by then should be a little more affordable. That should be proper equipment for our honeymoon.

One last point, escpecially regarding Spode's last reply:

Which viewfinder do you mean exactly - what distinguishes it from the Ricoh-variants? Thanks! (PS. I'm wearing glasses).

 

[Spode]

The Voigtlander, like the Sigma, 28mm Optical VF has gridlines representing a 3:2 ratio. The Ricoh VFs represent a 4:3 ratio.

Not that it makes a big difference, but the GR's native ratio is 3:2.

 

[Duane Pandorf]

Thank you all for your honest and balanced replies - greatly appreciated!

I think i will first go for the GR, try to learn more about RAW processing and invest my spare money in a good pc monitor. Then, same time next year, when a long US-wedding trip awaits us, maybe i'll give the Ricoh to my fiancée and buy the X100S, which by then should be a little more affordable. That should be proper equipment for our honeymoon.

One last point, escpecially regarding Spode's last reply:

Which viewfinder do you mean exactly - what distinguishes it from the Ricoh-variants? Thanks! (PS. I'm wearing glasses).

I would pay close attention to the FOV as Don "Streetshooter" suggested in an earlier post. You're trying to compare two completely different type of cameras with two different FOV lenses.

I only shoot RAW and wish I had for all the years I've owned the cameras that could. Today's image processing software just keeps getting better and better and shooting RAW allows you to have full access to all the data the sensor has captured.

I'm not sure about the latest Fuji X100s but I knew when the first version came out it took forever to be able to edit the RAW images in Lightroom or any of the other image editing software packages. So of course the proud owners of these cameras were quite happy with the JPG output because that's all they could do with them.

Ricoh has done the RAW format correctly by saving in the DNG format.

But, I'd take the time to figure out what FOV you're most comfortable shooting.