M Mount module setup

[Tom Caldwell]

TIP #1

I quite like the Fn1 toggle in and out of manual focus for the lens modules as it is a way of fixing focus.  However it is not necessary for a manual lens system.  That leaves Fn1 unused and able to be re-assigned - The lens mount module "remembers" the new setting used to replace it in the M mount module operation. Note that you might have changed this in not only your PASM/Auto modes but also in each and every shooting mode as well! Switching back and forth between a lens module and the M mount module would either result in a series of complementary Fn1 adjustments each time or just pick one and leave it the same. As I like both  features I would probably stick with the very useful and intuitive enlarge screen “Enlrg All” set to Fn1 and this would give consistency across all modules used. It would avoid confusion of having Fn1 do different things depending on the module in use. Fn2 adjusts manual flash output by default and very handy as well but could be reset to toggle manual/auto focus but the original feature might be moved somewhere else and of course Fn2 focus toggle would not be set to anything with the M mount module on board. Also note that you cannot set Fn2 to toggle focus with the M mount module in place but will have to attach a lens module to do so.

I have just reset all six on-board box modes plus the PASM mode using my P10 module to Fn1 = Enlarge All and Fn2 = Toggle MF/AF. Also I have set Adj Lever position one for manual flash level. The focus mode adjustment comes up in my Direct Screen as usual. This involves a fair bit of menu fiddling to achieve this consistency of operation. Now Enlarge All will give me a full screen enlargement to assist focus which will revert to full frame on half-press shutter only to enlarge again automatically to refocus if the shutter button is released without capturing the image – natural, intuitive and works well. Fn2 now allows toggle manual/auto-focus mode which not only allows normal lens modules to be manual focus adjusted but also serves as a focus lock. Of course I upgrade the My Modes directly from the Box Modes stored. When I re-insert the M mount module the GXR back has remembered the changes except that it has reverted to the manual flash level for Fn2 in the absence of the MF/AF toggle being applicable. This is acceptable enough as the function is not applicable for manual lenses and the slot would be otherwise unused. But did it change back the setting I had for the P10 module? Phew – no it has remembered that the P10 mode Is now using Fn2 for the MF/AF toggle.

Who said the GXR was not well served by firmware tricks? With complexity comes the ability to customise and you can either make it a custom camera powerhouse or go mad in the process.

Screen magnification using press-hold “ok” is a nuisance – doesn't cancel and even if it did would require another press-hold to re-instate. Have to cycle through full screen again to manually cancel

Enlarge screen function works better (Set to Fn1 – not the default) – soft press of shutter button reverts to full screen for adjusting composition, release shutter and focus adjustment can be trimmed with full enlarged screen. In order to get this to work with Auto or PASM modes you need to set it with the dial in one of those modes.

Tom

 

[Tom Caldwell]

Tip #2

Turn off auto-dim for your LCD!

It keeps on dimming in the middle of a framing/focussing exercise!

Furthermore if you just happen to try and adjust exposure when the screen is actually dimmed you will get an over-exposed capture.

Of course the GXR back has no idea you are actually playing with focus and framing on the lens and just decides that it will save you a little battery power (naturally enough).

Tom

 

[Tom Caldwell]

Tip #3 (more a clarification)

I am gradually getting my head around the fact that with the M mount module in use the whole top dial functions keep going their merry way more or less seemingly as before.  Once that nice helpful fact sinks in it is hard to just work out a preferred methodology and just how your old My and Box Modes interact. Still working it out – but modes must all work in Aperture Priority mode. You can use the “Switch Shooting Mode” to use something other than Aperture Priority.

How might the use of the PASM dial work in relation to this?  From the accompanying booklet with the M mount module on Page 24 it is stated that P & A modes work like Auto mode – the camera manual then says that Auto sets shutter speed and aperture for optimal exposure. As your lens does not talk to your manual aperture lens this is a rather round about way of stating that in P, A and Auto mode the camera works in Aperture Priority. The S (shutter priority) position combined with with auto or auto high will adjust ISO within your preset range to try and get the correct exposure – the shutter speed is set manually via the up down wheel. In M (manual) mode ISO is fixed at 200 but it appears that you have to set auto or auto high individually between S and M modes – logical enough. Obviously in both you set the aperture manually on the lens and therefore the S mode is not precisely shutter priority as it is shutter adjusting ISO to compensate given any aperture set by the user.

Tom

 

[Tom Caldwell]

Tip #4

If the M mount module does not “like” a function set to the adj lever then it removes it from the menu accessible to that module but when the lens module is restored it does not restore the missing item to the adj lever menu – eg: the “AF/MF” Focus type adjustment drop down. The Direct Menu adjusts and this should be sufficient.

Focus assist seems to turn itself off every time a module is exchanged.

Well I fixed that “me hearty's”.

If you want default focus assist = on then you have to set it in all your Box Modes and PASM as well otherwise changing modules will reset it to “off”

Tom

 

[odklizec]

Thanks for these tips Tom! I'm sure they will find a great use amongst new GXR M mount users!

BTW, I just added the M mount settings exchange thread where people can share their favorite M mount settings. These settings could be stored/loaded to/from SD card.
viewforum.php?f=69

 

[braeside]

I have found that changing Setup Menu - Start Settings Readout - to "Camera Unit" beneficial as it allows me to have my P10 set differently to my A12 Mount.

Another thing to check when you get an A12 Mount is that you set the Aspect ratio to the native 3:2 as only then do you get the max number of pixels. If you have been using another module you probably have been using the native 4:3 aspect ratio of those sensors.

 

[Tom Caldwell]

David

One of the wonders of these Ricoh machines is that they give a wonderful variety of tools. Then they tell you that they exist. If you are lucky you get a short explanation. Then, like Stanley, you are off to find Livingstone on you own personal exploration expedition.

There must be quite a few Ricoh owners out there teasing out the detail. Thanks for your help.

Others might just take one look and run everything as standard. Certainly others still will appreciate a dialogue giving their findings and tips on use.

I had been wondering about start settings readout and what you say makes good sense and I will make the change. Switching to any lens module other than the M mount module and having the special settings go with it is more radical than going from lens module to another lens module. I think I had it licked but it was a furious fiddle to make the changes in so many places. Also your suggestion on capture ratio is well received.

However now that I have found the joys of the enlarge full screen function and applied it to Fn1 I want to keep it for all modules that I might own. It works differently from the inbuilt screen magfification function which is "sticky", big enough to compromise the faming ability, requires a "press-hold" action and has to be cycled through another "press-hold" to full screen magnification then yet another to get back to the normal view. Sometimes this can be very useful. However the "enlarge screen" set on Fn1 is right next to "ok" on the camera. A simple ordinary press gives full screen enlargement that can be used for focussing, soft press the shutter and you see normal screen again to check framing, release the shutter then back to enlarge screen and so forth. Once the image is captured it reverts to normal screen. So easy and so intuitive. Useful for all modules.

I have moved the MF/AF toggle from Fn1 to Fn2 and the set Manual Flash Value to the first item on the adj lever. The only thing I had to boot out was the focus type settings which are redundant on the M mount module but which come up automatically on the Direct Screen of other lens modules. Nothing was lost.

I am trying as far as possible to keep my buttons and levers doing the same thing on all modules where their function is applicable. I have been a little amazed at how many places need the settings changed where you want this to apply. Otherwise you risk changing modules and sometimes the change will migrate and sometimes the settings will revert to those on your individual module. Change your module and you re-learn where everything is. Sort of flies inthe face of having a common back just a little.

Despite my system loading from body the settings were changing in an erratic way. My next problem is on whether if I now "load from module" the carefully adjusted Fn1, Fn2 and adj lever settings will reset to what was on the P10 ....

Presumably when you are loading from module then when you make adjustments you are making adjustments on module as well?

Tom

 

[Tom Caldwell]

Thanks for these tips Tom! I'm sure they will find a great use amongst new GXR M mount users!

BTW, I just added the M mount settings exchange thread where people can share their favorite M mount settings. These settings could be stored/loaded to/from SD card.
viewforum.php?f=69

Pavel,

No doubt these will appear soon enough but I yet to get my head clear on the crazy way these have to be set up. Perhaps M mount modules do not require such setings as "Good Light" - low ISO, RAW capture, etc or "Quick" - 400 ISO, jpg only, etc, or even "B&W" - set B&W, RAW capture, grainy ISO, etc. Let alone "Circus", etc. I suppose one generic setting for personal preference might do and all that is needed in the mode settings are individual lenses and their special trimming settings. If this were the case the generic settings might be limited to "universal" ones and all that would need be set in the modes are the lens-specific settings only. Seems like a lot of baggage to carry when this is already recorded in PASM mode as well.

So if someone wants say three personal shooting setting then do they have to replicate these for each and every lens that they might use? It surely will soon be out of control.

If settings are shared it is the precise way that an individual lens can be tuned that is precious knowledge (as such it might be jealously guarded by the "experts"). The rest of the setup is very much a personal preference of an individual photographer. So do we exchange the whole personal preference set up with each lens set up exchanged?

The fact that settings are now exchangeable is good, the fact that it is implemented in a clumsy and complicated way is not so good.

Two data bases are needed - one lens data base with name, descriptions and special characteristics of that lens. The other is the regular My and Box Modes data base that should have been left unchanged from before. In this way any one lens could address any number of settings. Also it would lead to a scrolling list of lenses that could be selected from at start up and defaulting to the last one used. Easy. Why so complicated the way it is?

Tom

 

[braeside]

Despite my system loading from body the settings were changing in an erratic way. My next problem is on whether if I now "load from module" the carefully adjusted Fn1, Fn2 and adj lever settings will reset to what was on the P10 ....

Presumably when you are loading from module then when you make adjustments you are making adjustments on module as well?

Tom

Tom,

The settings you make are always written to both the body and the camera unit that is attached irrespective of the Start Settings. However if you have "Start Settings - Camera Unit" then you will load what that particular camera unit was previously set to. This means that camera unit settings can operate entirely independently.

Put on first camera unit - change settings to "Start Settings - Camera Unit".
Swop to next camera unit - check or change "Start Setting - Camera Unit" on that one as well.
Thereafter you should be OK.

You can transfer settings (at least those that are common to particular modules) by using the "Start Settings - Body" on the one that you want to copy the settings to. Then change it back to "Camera Unit" afterwards.

That is my experience anyway!

 

[Ksnow]

Tom,
Any chance that, once you figure things out, you might make a simplified list or chart to guide users thru some of these operations? I really appreciate your exuberance & efforts, but sort of feel like Alice-down-the-rabbit-hole in trying to follow you at this time. Ken :shock:

 

[Tom Caldwell]

Despite my system loading from body the settings were changing in an erratic way. My next problem is on whether if I now "load from module" the carefully adjusted Fn1, Fn2 and adj lever settings will reset to what was on the P10 ....

Presumably when you are loading from module then when you make adjustments you are making adjustments on module as well?

Tom

Tom,

The settings you make are always written to both the body and the camera unit that is attached irrespective of the Start Settings. However if you have "Start Settings - Camera Unit" then you will load what that particular camera unit was previously set to. This means that camera unit settings can operate entirely independently.

Put on first camera unit - change settings to "Start Settings - Camera Unit".
Swop to next camera unit - check or change "Start Setting - Camera Unit" on that one as well.
Thereafter you should be OK.

You can transfer settings (at least those that are common to particular modules) by using the "Start Settings - Body" on the one that you want to copy the settings to. Then change it back to "Camera Unit" afterwards.

That is my experience anyway!

Thanks David,

I had sort of figured this out once before but only had the one module at the time and so had put it on the mental back burner. I had not progressed to testing it out myself. Thanks for clearing this up for me. You have stated the method with great clarity.

Some time ago I suggested that RIcoh needed a second, more technical, manual that was perhpas only downloaded from their website and therefore always up to date. This manual would cover the background of the operations that you have described which are presently little more than a function in the menu and lucky to even get a mention in the manual let alone a detailed "how it might work".

Meanwhile Pavel is providing a great resource to dissemninate what we have collectively worked out.

Pavel might extract the pearls of wisdom from amoungst the other wordiness and compress this into a "technical manual" on this site.

Your help in fleshing these things out is invaluable.

In my own stubborn way I had already "forced" the GXR back into my way of thinking for both modules . However it is interesting that despite there being no function linked to the Fn2 as I have just changed it when the M mount module is inserted the GXR back resorts to the default setting for this function. This makes sense as there is a function to "restore defaults" which must mean that the camera body always has a set of default settings tucked away in rom and therefore if the mounted module has no function for that "button" then it must use the default from the camera body. In fact it may well be that if you have not changed any particular setting the camera in operation picks up the default from a sort of flip/flop flag specifying body/module priority. I have not thought out the method that must be used precisely but the germ of the idea is there.

Tom

 

[Tom Caldwell]

Tom,
Any chance that, once you figure things out, you might make a simplified list or chart to guide users thru some of these operations? I really appreciate your exuberance & efforts, but sort of feel like Alice-down-the-rabbit-hole in trying to follow you at this time. Ken :shock:

Ken

"exuberance" = madness :?

I did put up a chart of some specimen settings for the GXR some time ago but there have been firmware revisions since then and the M mount has added it's own complications.

If you are new to the GXR I suggest the following methodology.

Just use the camera normally as you might - say in "P" mode. If you are out on a sunny day taking images in a good light you might have set raw capture and low ISO, for instance. Happy with the results you might save this in the My1 register. You can use the little easy to use text editor to name it say "Good Light".

Subsequently you might want to take some images in a hurry, not wanting works of art and not having time to fiddle with ISO and other settings you might select just jpg files to save a bit of recording time and set ISO to 400. Again, once you have the setup you are happy with you could save this to My2 and call it "Quick".

If you were into snow sports you might set one up for that or maybe B&W with raw so that you would get B&W jpg files but could still retain the colour by shooting in raw. Another named setting would go in My3.

Then all you would have to do is twist the dial to your preset setting whenever you needed to use them. You can vary the setting again from this preset and if you think you have improved upon your start setting then re-save it back into the same My mode. In this way you build up a suite of favourite settings for your most used shooting conditions.

Once you feel that you have pretty well worked out any of these settings then you can save them deeper in the system as a Box mode. You can always recall the Box mode to overwrite your My mode if you make changes to it for the worse.

Also suggest that you go into the second page of the Setup menu and switch "Function Button Display" = on, this flashes up the settings for you function buttons on the screen to remind you how they are set when you rotate the dial. Also the next item "Show My Settings Name" = on, this flashes up the name that you have given to your My mode on the top centre of the screen when you enter any My mode - this helps you remember what set of settings you are accessing.

I have revised my list of settings that I prepared into a spreadsheet, I have to proof read it and figure out how I might colour code the items not acessible by the M mount module and when it is more or less complete will again upload it to Pavel's site.

Tom

 

[Tom Caldwell]

RAW files and multiple mode setup situations

Something troubles me about the complex ability to set up multiple modes in the GXR (and also the GRDIII).

You can now set up six Box modes and three My modes in camera and recently on the GXR you can also add a further six modes stored on a sd card in the camera and as downloadable exchangeable files. We must also not forget that the camera remebers the last PASM settings additionally and also that you can vary many of the settings attached to Scene modes and they are remembered as well.

On a rough count there are at 50/60 functions that can be individually adjusted to modes in the Shooting Menu and a further 20/30 can be adjusted globally in the Key Custom Settings and Setup Menu.

Now I hear tell from an expert that you don't need to use the modes at all when using a M mount module and shooting in raw. Other than to set up your lens database. The lens database is buried at page four of the Shooting Menu. This is cumbersome. One also might wonder why once raw is selected all the rest of the menu not applicable disappears. In fact Ricoh already do that as when different modules are inserted the Shooting Menu function list changes appropriately.

Of course everyone knows that raw files are raw files, the digital negative, etc, etc. Therefore the water in that data is not muddied. This is where my knowledge fails me. The DNG file specification allows camera manufacturers to export additional information into their DNG file in the form of embedded XMP "sidecar" information. How much of the shooting menu adjustments go into the sidecar is not known to me. Many settings are more for the actual use of the camera rather than the adjustment of the image captured - for instance the very decision to capture in raw might be chosen for one setting and not for any other, focus instructions might be there for other lens modules (but not the M mount module), white balance and white balance compensation might be safely stored for reference as would be the noise settings and ISO used - these are adjusted by the DNG file system itself. However flash settings, self timer, auto bracketing, interval mode, and others are definable no matter what lens module is in place.

The basic query is not so much on whether raw is raw and therefore modes can safely be ignored but more just how much additional metadata Ricoh might include in the XMP information that it embeds in the DNG file to assist later processing and conversion of raw files. I will tease this out but wiser heads might comment.

Otherwise we might wonder why we have such a complex suite of details that can be tuned when we insert an M mount module into the GXR body. Perhaps it is just to keep guys like me amused :shock:

If it is all just a waste of time Ricoh might just as well lock out the bulk of it as soon as "raw" file format recording has been selected.

However my common sense says that the converted raw file that first pops up in the raw file processing software looks strangely like that jpg version processed in camera therefore any in-camera tweaks are being relayed to the raw file even though as we all know and respect - the raw file contains more data and can be helpfully massaged and "corrected" with access to the original capture information.

For example - if you have set the wrong white balance in camera and shoot raw then the converted raw file shows up on your computer initially with the dead-set same incorrect white balance, which you correct of course. But it does not start up in your converted file with no white balance or the true colours captured by the camera pixels despite your own clumsy white balance camera setting.

Obviously the camera sees tungsten light as tungsten light and does an auto white balance on it and stores this setting separately to modify the actual sensor capture data later. If you make a custom white balance then this is recorded as the modifier. However you might later decide to change this modifier in processing to one more realistic or otherwise let your imagination roll. In no case so we get the precise information thatbthe sensor actually "sees" although it is undoubtedly there.

Therefore in my non-educated but perhaps common-sense understanding the use of the modes give you a chance to switch between diverse shooting conditons at dial twist. Perhaps these are not all fundamental issues with raw processing but the amending data is added to the raw file and the raw file left to be processed is more nearly correct as you might desire from the start but of course you can still add refinement later. ie: less work to fix up your raw files later.

Perhaps everyone is right to a point. However my personality is such that I have to understand what all the levers might do when I pull them as I don't like the thought of standing on a trap door when I pull the lever labelled "Arrgh!"

Tom

 

[Ksnow]

Thanks for your response to my request, Tom. I am looking forward to your spreadsheet. Also, I want you to know that I really appreciate your "engineer's approach" (perhaps that should be "reverse engineer's approach") to unraveling the mysteries Ricoh have put before us. Perhaps they are having a few good laughs over some saki as they read our posts. :mrgreen: Ken

 

[Tom Caldwell]

Revised GXR Mode Settings Matrix


I have not finished checking the new setup spreadsheet out but I will be busy for a little while so I had best put it up now with the possibility of errors.

One thing I had been hoping to flush out is just which settings are for general lens modules and which ones are specifically M mount module and which ones are common to both - I have started but not finished.

Will just try and dance through Pavel's system here and post it - an update can come later.

Ah - separate post .... not a "quick reply"

Tom

 

[Tom Caldwell]

Interim revision of GXR M Mount Module Modes Matrix

 

[Tom Caldwell]

The Good the bad and the quite ridiculous

I had to show it - just once .... :roll:

200 x 3 x 1.5= 900mm equivalent

(Image shape cropped at right on posting)

 

[Tom Caldwell]

This is neater and sweeter and works very well

Jupiter-3 50mm f1.5 LTM with adapter to LM

 

[braeside]

Thanks for the updated XLS, will have a look at that, I certainly found your earlier XLS very useful when I first acquired my GXR.

I agree it is good to have all the hints and tips in one place. The manual is not too bad, compared to some others I have encountered, but still it leaves a lot of things unanswered and requires a bit of experimentation to see exactly what they mean.

I suspect a lot of people are not finding the easiest way to use the camera because they just give up on the manual and perhaps don't realise that there are a number of things they can do to improve the user experience.

Have you taken any shots with the 900mm effective setup yet Tom?

 

[Tom Caldwell]

Grin

Yes I had a try, couldn't help myself ...

Works ok but I would have to try seriously to get decent shots - with all that telephoto the focus is hair trigger and the dof is not that bright even when I stopped it back. I don't think that old 200mm lens was ever meant to be used on tripod as it does not have a tripod collar. I have used it quite successfully hand held on a NX10 but there we have an evf and slr-like shape so the grip and stance are natural and as a f2.8 lens it is quite usable on it's own.

It is a bit silly putting a triple extender on it because this pushes the f number to f8.4 effective which is not completely out in left field but a handful off tripod. So I tried a mini-monopod off the camera body when sitting cradling the lens in hand and looking down thorough the evf - nearly there but not good enough to show. Sufficient to say you could get something if you were dead set crazy and desperate and had nothing else to use. I have a "rabbit ears" rest for long lenses on a tripod and might try it some time just for amusement.

I have a better set up for doing this sort of thing:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/49387980@N ... 546695687/

or this:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/49387980@N ... 090593312/

I have found the best lenses I have tried so far have been the cheapest and most common: the LTM Industar-61L/D 55mm f2.8 and the M42 Helios44M-7 50mm f2.0. I must also re-try the Canon FD 20mm f2.8 which is a great lens on any camera.

Tom