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M mount Black&White sensor

silverbullet

silverbullet

Member
seeing all the buzz about the M mount Ricoh should release another mount:

A dedicated black&white mount for the all over the world afficionados of b&w photography. I guess it's relatively cheap to produce this mount but at the moment I'm not quite sure whether such sensors exist on the market.
The resolution must be impressive, but at the moment we should concentrate to the existing one. ;)
 
I looked into this in detail when I was intending to send my 400D off to Max Max for a monochrome conversion. There is some advantage to losing the AA filter, but there's not sufficient further advantage to removing the microlenses to outweigh the loss of digital colour filtering.
 
The b&w sensor is much more different to a Bayer-layout sensor. The Bayer filter is completely missing when I remember well. Therefore the max. resolution by a given size is much higher. Could be that I remember not so correct, but.......
 
I'm afraid, the chance to see pure B&W mount is very low. I think there is much better chance we will get the full frame module? ;) As far as I remember, the last time (and most probably the first time as well) someone tried B&W sensor was Kodak in their B&W DSLR? It was expensive and nearly complete fail. As far as I know, there is no commercially available B&W sensor and I doubt Ricoh is powerful enough to ask someone to develop such sensor? But who knows? Maybe the actual Ricoh/Pentax cooperation will bring us something interesting in this area?
 
As Leica has recently announced its new M Monochrom camera (£6000+) I thought it would be worth reviving this post.

Assuming that Leica has researched the probable demand and baring in mind the resurgence of interest in black and white, maybe there is a niche opportunity here for an M Mount "Monochrom" unit.

I would be prepared to pay a premium price for such a unit. What do other B&W enthusiasts think?

Mike
 
It was mentioned a while back that Ricoh possibly were to play some part in the research/development of the (Leica) B&W sensor. I am unable to determine the truth in the statements released so am unsure if this was so. As it has been proved possible to manufacture it can be assumed other companies may consider their own path in this area, especially, as you rightly mentioned, as there is a resurgence in the interest of B&W photography. I for one hope Ricoh take a look at the idea. A reasonably priced M mount capable module for the GXR could end up being a winner IMO also Mike........... :cool: :cool:
 
Have been playing with m Monochrom file that I downloaded from Jon Slacks site and I have to say the quality is amazing but at £6000 this is an expensive camera so an offering from Ricoh would be interesting IF it was also FF
 
Over at Digital Loyds he has been attempting to compare the Nikon D800 files converted to B&W with the Leica Monochrom. I think he's of the opinion that they're close enough that one loses a lot of options paying that much for a Leica that only shoots in B&W.
 
Duane Pandorf":2bnop8i6 said:
Over at Digital Loyds he has been attempting to compare the Nikon D800 files converted to B&W with the Leica Monochrom. I think he's of the opinion that they're close enough that one loses a lot of options paying that much for a Leica that only shoots in B&W.
Click to expand...

Yes, but a DSLR and a rangefinder are two different cameras aimed at two different kind of shooters.

Sign me up for a B&W Ricoh!
 
So far Ricoh have not produced a FF camera unit for the GXR. If they did I would expect it to have a colour sensor and it would be more expensive than the current M mount unit. A B&W only unit would appeal to the dedicated B&W enthusiasts but are there enough of them to make the project viable?
 
I wouldn't think Ricoh will make a B&W module. To start, there's not enough people into the GXR anyways. So maybe what could happen is.... they offer a conversion to your existing module.
That way it's a special order item and no fears about stock etc. Myself, I do 99.99% B&W. I wouldn't be interested in a B&W M unit as I dont care about the M unit anyway.

The GXR is designed to provide options. Making a B&W module presents a nice option until that one image needs to be in color. Of course then we can all do as Wallace Nutting did.......
 
ayewing":7h1f0if0 said:
So far Ricoh have not produced a FF camera unit for the GXR. If they did I would expect it to have a colour sensor and it would be more expensive than the current M mount unit. A B&W only unit would appeal to the dedicated B&W enthusiasts but are there enough of them to make the project viable?
Click to expand...
Of course there`re crowds of potential customers for B/W sensor taking in account the interest Monochrom has stirred. Due to Monochrom`s price many would buy into Ricoh system just for that. Production of chip should`t be complicated. You just take a naked sensor, no color filters no aa filter, just a reprograming the algorythms. I`m all for extra modules that would make Ricoh stand out with their concept.( see my input on filming with HD only m-unit). Look at A12 unit. There were voivces about lacking interest and so on. No it`s the main reason for many to buy in Ricoh system, me included. Have you heard it Ricoh?
 
streetshooter":x2ga7qo2 said:
I wouldn't think Ricoh will make a B&W module. To start, there's not enough people into the GXR anyways. So maybe what could happen is.... they offer a conversion to your existing module.
That way it's a special order item and no fears about stock etc. Myself, I do 99.99% B&W. I wouldn't be interested in a B&W M unit as I dont care about the M unit anyway.

The GXR is designed to provide options. Making a B&W module presents a nice option until that one image needs to be in color. Of course then we can all do as Wallace Nutting did.......
Click to expand...
Gee what a possitive responce. You do 9999999% B/W and don`t care for B/W unit. Talking about logic. The GRX is designed to provide options, you say, while at same time you don`t care about more options. If you need color use color module and in 999999% convert them into B/W. Beside it you can do color on your Iphone and make a call too, which GRX cannot. Stanis
 
ZDP-189":334wzrkj said:
I looked into this in detail when I was intending to send my 400D off to Max Max for a monochrome conversion. There is some advantage to losing the AA filter, but there's not sufficient further advantage to removing the microlenses to outweigh the loss of digital colour filtering.
Click to expand...
You remove Bayer color filters which are the main culprits in light loss (half) and channel noise, you still usese offset microlenses to counter oblique rays. Stanis
 
riccadonna":k4yx6srz said:
streetshooter":k4yx6srz said:
I wouldn't think Ricoh will make a B&W module. To start, there's not enough people into the GXR anyways. So maybe what could happen is.... they offer a conversion to your existing module.
That way it's a special order item and no fears about stock etc. Myself, I do 99.99% B&W. I wouldn't be interested in a B&W M unit as I dont care about the M unit anyway.

The GXR is designed to provide options. Making a B&W module presents a nice option until that one image needs to be in color. Of course then we can all do as Wallace Nutting did.......
Click to expand...
Gee what a possitive responce. You do 9999999% B/W and don`t care for B/W unit. Talking about logic. The GRX is designed to provide options, you say, while at same time you don`t care about more options. If you need color use color module and in 999999% convert them into B/W. Beside it you can do color on your Iphone and make a call too, which GRX cannot. Stanis
Click to expand...


Stanis, I'm a photographer. I use cameras to make the images I feel and see. I also am smart enough to understand that in a struggling world economy, making a product for a select few will lead to failure. The GXR is my working camera. Why, because it delivers what I need from a camera. I use the 28 and sometimes the 50. I have the S10 but use it mostly for my grand kids and family things.
The options the system offers really is for it's users. I don't feel making a separate M B&W unit is financially a sound investment. As I stated, a sensor upgrade is more logical.

I have the M unit and many Leica lenses. I don't use it. It's not fast enough FOR ME. I won't explain anymore on that subject because I don't have to. That sir, is the reason I stated I have no interest in the Monochrome M unit, because I have no interest in any M unit.

BTW, I use an Iphone for a phone but never use the camera.... Have a good day....Don
 
That sir, is the reason I stated I have no interest in the Monochrome M unit, because I have no interest in any M unit.
Click to expand...

Don, I would imagine that most people visiting this section of the forum are interested in the M Mount and it has been interesting to read the mostly positive responses.

I use cameras to make the images I feel and see. I also am smart enough to understand that in a struggling world economy, making a product for a select few will lead to failure.
Click to expand...

I disagree. Niche products can thrive in economic downturns. If that wasn't true why does a view camera maker like Ebony thrive in a world dominated by digital cameras and the likes of Canon and Nikon? Why is it that the hugely expensive Leica range of rangefinder cameras and lenses is in such demand that they can't produce enough of certain items?

Leica are very clever. They have introduced two "new" rangefinder cameras based on the M9 in in the past year or so that have required very little r&d. Demand for the M9P and the pre-orders for the Monochrom prove they can win additional sales with minimal investment and win new Leica users.

If Ricoh introduced a B&W M module I'd like to bet they would not only sell a healthy number to existing M Mount users but create a substantial new customer base of B&W only photographers who find the Monochrom price to rich to digest.

Mike
 
Allright, I surrender to the conversation.
I shall not express my opinion on this anymore.
I''ll just go make photos....
Later
 
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