GXR A12/S10 - long term test

[barjohn]

Ricoh needs to respond to the various reports including mine with a FW update pretty soon or at least an indication that they are addressing the problems. The Samsung NX-10 will soon be available and at a price of $699 it will look like a steal with fast AF 14.6mp, an APS-C sensor and decent ISO 3200 performance. The 30mm/f2 pancake looks to have very good performance as does the 18-55 lens according to the Lorena website review that posts the data and images (sorry I can't read what they are saying about it).

I purchased the S10 module and while I really like its size and weight and 24mm field of view, the image quality is pretty disappointing. I will be posting up my comments in the next few days on the S10 as I get a little more experience shooting with it.

 

[odklizec]

Barjohn, I'm sure Ricoh will soon respond with a new FW update. You just have to give them some time to "respond". Obvious things like freezes and typos in menu can be fixed quickly. Slow/inaccurate AF is very complicated and very delicate thing to fix or improve, so you cannot expect an immediate release of new FW. Ricoh engineers surely working on improvements.

I don't want to start a silly flame, so I'm not going to comment on your Samsung comment.

As for the S10 image quality, I have completely different experience? S10 image quality seems to be very good and usable even in JPEG. There is of course visible image degradation at higher ISO caused by noise and noise reduction. But if one wants more, there is still an option to shot in RAW, which allows to extract a lot of details and clean the noise without visible destructive effect. Of course, what's very important is correct exposure. But once correctly exposed, there is no problem using ISO 800 or even 1600 and even in JPEG! So far, I'm very satisfied with the image quality coming from S10.

Here are two unedited (just scaled down) examples:


Notice the ISO value used in both shots! There is of course visible noise, but it's not that bad. I don't want to make too early or conclusive statements, because I have S10 only for about 5 days. I did not have a chance yet to directly compare S10 images with GRDIII output. But it seems to me that the S10 RAW is somewhat easier to edit with more details and mainly, without the ugly banding visible in high ISO shots in GRDIII! But I will have to make some tests to confirm or deny my findings regarding the more detailed S10 RAW.

In any case, you have to remember the S10 is based on small sensor so there is no chance the image quality will be comparable (not even nearly) with anything from APSC.

 

[barjohn]

Pavel, when I have more time I will post comparison with Canon S90 and you will see there is no comparison in IQ. If I have not exposed correctly, I have to blame it on the camera since I let the camera chose the exposure.

 

[andrewteee]

I don't remember where, but a day or two ago I read a post where someone was disappointed with the S90 and ended up loving the S10. Since the S10 is essentially a "GX300" it should have a similar rendering feel. Many, including Sean Reid, have a strong appreciation for Ricoh's particular recipe for small sensor rendering. The only disappointment is that many people would like to have a zero NR option in Ricoh's small sensor cameras. The original GRD had this and is well known for its beautiful B&W rendering.

I don't mind "grain" at all. In fact, I often add it in PP. Silver Efex Pro is great for that.

At any rate, after the A12, the S10 won't impress the same. It's literally a different camera.

 

[odklizec]

Barjohn, some comparison photos would be nice. But there are two important things to say. Cameras like S10 can of course be used in full automatic mode, but it's in my opinion complete waste of money (no offence meant). There are many situations, where is very important to work with exposure compensation and histogram. S10 is in the end "only" compact camera with small sensor, with tendency to under/overexposure and a lot of noise. With "correct exposure" I mean adjusting exposure to help the camera to eliminate noise and/or under/over exposures.

And at second, JPEG usually does not represent the best you can get from the camera. Did you try to use RAW? I mean, I personally would not be surprised by somewhat better looking out of camera JPEG coming from S90. Canon has traditionally very good JPEG output. But from what I saw up to now, I have no doubt the S90 would be smashed out by the S10 output. The S10 lens is simply better.

In other words, if you are a JPEG user and you are not willing to spent some time with RAW processing or optimizing the camera settings/exposure, S10 is most probably not camera for you. May I ask you what did you expect from S10? Once again, no offence meant. I'm just curious.

 

[madmaxmedia]

I think out-of-camera JPEGs of all these compacts is roughly 'horrible' due to NR (past base ISO) that further degrades detail. I would rather have luminance noise, than removal of luminance noise which A) leaves blotchy artifacts in its wake and B) further reduces detail beyond that which was lost due to the original noise.

I would however be really interested in RAW shootout between S10 and the other popular compacts. I am guessing there won't be that much difference since they use similar (or even the same?) sensor, and what we are really discussing ultimately when comparing the JPEG's is preferred flavor of processing.