Guy Parsons File Coding System

[Tom Caldwell]

Guy Parsons, R series master, some years ago recorded a method of differencing the source camera by file number coding when you have more than one Ricoh camera.

Giving credit to Guy I think his method needs wider publicity and I would like to do so.

Guy's original idea was to difference different R series cameras that he owned but it seems that Ricoh still uses much the same numbering system on all its camera and therefore can continue to be used. I will now find it very useful now that I have accumulated more than one GXR camera back but the same process can difference images from say a GRDIV from a GRDIII or a GXR body.

Obviously somewhere on each SD card (it could probably be found) the last file number used is stored. Guy's method was to trick the camera into incrementing a new number series that is created.

I tried Guy's method on the GXR. It really is quite simple and and can have it's usefulness within restrictions.

You don't need to reformat your SD card as he suggests but that might mean a clean start. All you have to do is clean the card of images but leave one there. Or simply capture a single image as a dummy to work on.

Then go into your file manager and rename the single remaining file R#------ where the # represents a number 0-9. If you use DNG and JPG as I do then I renamed one "set" of images the same. Then by Guy's method that file is left there (?), however it seems that once the sd card in camera has been "set" to this new number and the camera used to capture at least one other image then the new sequence will be remembered. Once the new number has been set further images captured happily increment from there even if the original file changed has been later removed. This seems card-specific and will follow the sd card about but if the one card is left in camera then it provides a code that indicate camera of origin. It can also be used to separate individual cards so that the image numbering will not clash in a directory of images. But by sorting a directory by numeric order images from separate cameras/cards can be isolated.

I tried to be more ambitious by changing the lead "R" to "G" but whilst the numbers continued to be incremented from the inserted base number the "G" was changed back to "R" on succeeding images recorded.

Bear in mind that the cameras have their own internal numbering system in use and that the file numbers generated when recording are actually different as explained in the GXR manual on page 148.

Guy Parsons discovered, tested and publicised this method on his site and the dpreview Ricoh Forum some years ago in relation to the R series and all credit should be his.

This method seems generic to Ricoh cameras and could be also used for instance to quickly isolate images taken with different model Ricoh cameras as well as images from identical models - for instance CX, GX, R, GXR and GRD could have different number prefixes within your "fleet". Of course if you have more than one GXR all the EXIF says is that it was "taken by a GXR".

For those that do not wish to mess around with file numbers but are happy for their EXIF to tell the tale then perhaps a single digit code in the copyright notice section (in the GXR alone?) can identify the GXR camera back in use? This of course will be blown away the first time that you use my method of synchronising camera back settings.

Tom

 

[streetshooter]

Tom, it seems like a complicated way to make easy things hard.

I use 2 GXR's and the GRD4. I have one GXR to reset the file numbers and the second not to. If I use both cameras at a shoot, no 2 numbers are the same....but.....
I load the images to my desktop, (Mac) in a folder named Raw. Now I have different numbers but it doesn't matter. I move the DNG files into Light Room and have it sort by capture time.

They all go into a folder like this.... 06-12-DNG This is the months master folder. Then I rename the images like so...
06-12-0001-DNG This coding means June 2012, file number etc.
I've been using this system since 1970 with my negatives. If I need a file, it takes seconds to find anything anywhere. There is no chance of any 2 images ever having the same number.

I hope this makes sense. Don

 

[Tom Caldwell]

Tom, it seems like a complicated way to make easy things hard.

I use 2 GXR's and the GRD4. I have one GXR to reset the file numbers and the second not to. If I use both cameras at a shoot, no 2 numbers are the same....but.....
I load the images to my desktop, (Mac) in a folder named Raw. Now I have different numbers but it doesn't matter. I move the DNG files into Light Room and have it sort by capture time.

They all go into a folder like this.... 06-12-DNG This is the months master folder. Then I rename the images like so...
06-12-0001-DNG This coding means June 2012, file number etc.
I've been using this system since 1970 with my negatives. If I need a file, it takes seconds to find anything anywhere. There is no chance of any 2 images ever having the same number.

I hope this makes sense. Don

Yep Don, your system does make sense but the file numbering "problem" hasn't been bothering me a lot, I have an existing method of my own - I just use Japanese date format for my folders YYMMDD followed by the camera used and enough to identify the event as my whim takes me - works well and is automatically sorted by date with no further effort required. I stick the DNG files in a sub-directory always called "DNG" but I could use YYMMDDDNG alternatively. Dead simple, easy-peasy, intuitive. When I edit files they automatically go into a folder called "Edits" and are sorted by subject from there. Sometimes I pull them back to the original location, but usually date-order is my data-base of "negatives".

What I am suggesting is even simpler in concept, just set up a separate sd card sequence number and keep that card in camera and that camera is always identified by file number - period. Takes seconds to set up. Now I will be able to stick files from different GXR backs (even different model cameras) used on the same date into the same date directory, identify the camera that was used (for some casual excitement ) and also make sure that there was never any chance of file numbering conflict, it is permanent, needs no further attention or monitoring, and all automatically done. Not that I have had a file number conflict so far - I guess I have been lucky since the days when I used my Canon bodies regularly with smaller capacity cards that were not so understanding.

If we all have our own working file tracking methods thereafter anything extra is a pure bonus, no more.

It was an idea I remembered from a Guy Parsons invention some years ago and thought it not much use at the time for me personally but now it seems to have a little merit and worth repeating for the interest of others..

Tom

 

[streetshooter]

Tom, agreed...his system makes sense as does your idea of a seperate SD card.
It's all about organization. Luckily enuff I saw fit to start a system when I was young and my brain was more awake. Now I'm older and my brain is on vacation more often then not.
Thanks...don

 

[Tom Caldwell]

Tom, agreed...his system makes sense as does your idea of a seperate SD card.
It's all about organization. Luckily enuff I saw fit to start a system when I was young and my brain was more awake. Now I'm older and my brain is on vacation more often then not.
Thanks...don

Nothing wrong with your brain Don, sounds like it is working just fine.

My "system" is just hanging in there - every time I try and organise it I throw another bucket of images into it and have to get the mop out again. (grin)

Tom

 

[Tom Caldwell]

More - peripheral points

Despite the Ricoh manuals statement, or possibly because of it: "When a new memory card is inserted, file numbering continues from the last number used". (Yes it does but the prefix changes)

Setting the prefix "R*--->" will take that same prefix to another camera if it is moved but the rest of the file numbering will continue as before in that second camera's previous numbering sequence.

Therefore the usefulness of this method is really SD card specific. Obviously the number sequence "belongs" to that camera but it does read at least the first two digits of the last file number on the SD card and uses this as the prefix.

I have found that it is not necessary to re-format the SD card, or even delete existing files on it, just change the number on the last stored file in sequence and the sequence will be set from then on. Also if the corresponding DNG and JPG files are not set to the same number they will continue to increment but will no longer be matched.

Limitation: only 999,999 files can be sequenced on each card before the system reaches its limit and starts destroying it.

By reformatting the card at useful limit then the sequence can be restarted and re-run.

Done: love it or hate it, use your own preferred method, but at least it is known and put back on public view.

Tom

 

[streetshooter]

Tom, this brings up a major key issue. If his system is dependent upon not formatting the SD card....well, we have a problem with liftoff Houston.
Most of us have learned from experience that formatting the card is mandatory every time it comes back into the camera.

So kind sir, please attempt to explain how this system will work under the "we format the SD card every time it's installed in the camera" rule.
don

 

[Tom Caldwell]

Don

Must try it, I only reformat a card when it "needs" it. Has worked fine for the last 10 years of my digital camera life. Never had a problem with this. But almost certainly reformatting a card will reset it to "R0" as you have anticipated. Furthermore if you introduce a new card to your camera you must make sure that it has the same prefix as before, and do this manually. Once a second card is in circulation then the old problem of duplicated file numbers must re-arise. I use 16Gb cards in my GRDIII and GXR cameras and now with two 32Gb fast cards in play as well, short of a card utterly failing I see no problem in needing more than one card per camera.

Don, just what goes wrong when you don't reformat cards? Index corruption? You will soon know that this has happened when the card does crazy things. So nobody wants to have their card go crazy in the middle of an important shoot or even possibly lose that best capture ever. Therefore re-formatting regularly might be a good insurance policy and I can buy that as more important than a crazy file number coding system.

I just stick the card in my computer and cut and paste using file manager. If my knowledge is incorrect then I hope to be corrected, but politely please, I only speak from my persoanl experience and not from some deep understanding. I am more an explorer complete with pith helmet looking for what might lie on the other side of yonder hill. Like the original "Thomas" I like to understand why we do things.

My creaking old experience in programming, now hopelessly out of date, tells me that if you remove some files and leave others then you can fragment the data files when further recording is done as new file data is fitted around pre-existing ones. Usually you get "holes" in the data structure and file storage capacity and recording/read speed is compromised. File deletion is usually done by simply rubbing out the index entry (in the cut or delete process) and leaving the actual file data in place. This is why sometimes you can recover a deleted file (before it is over-written) - the index is just re-generated by examining known file-type structures in the data section. As far as I know all basic formating does is wipe the index section completely in one action and check that the card is properly laid out to accept further data. It is possible also to recover file information from a formatted card, just harder as the entire index has been erased. A "wipe format" which I don't think any camera actually does (as it is pointless) overwrites "1" or "0" bits in the complete data section so that the data also is lost.

Therefore if you were to make a habit of picking and chosing files to take off your card then in time the card would become horribly fragmented, slow, and eventually prone to file recording errors, much like a regular computer hard drive. But if you remove all files every time that you download off the card you end up with a clean empty index section and a contiguous data part ready to take new captures much the same as if the card were formatted. Formatting then is no more than a quick way of cleaning up the index but it probably checks that the directory structure is correct as a bonus. I don't even think it removes the ".trashes" and any other temporary directories that occasionally seem to spirit themself on to the card. I have removed these temporary directories manually myself without any ill effects and no need to re-format the card.

Card formatting has other functions in-camera. Each camera has a designated file structure and file naming process selected by the manufacturer. Therefore swapping cards between cameras made by different manufacturers is more fraught and a reformat in the new camera might be a good idea for safety purposes. However the camera must check for the file structure signature every time it looks to save a file and if it is not there simply creates it. This is more wasteful rather than an impending disaster as you end up with (say) a Canon set of file headers and a Ricoh one on the same card. Usually the cameras are smart enough to cope.

So I don't get problems with liftoff, but there is no harm done in reformatting the card every time just in case you have accidentally created a problem in the index structure along the way - certainly it is the quickest way to "erase" a card in-camera.

Furthermore if you have a system that works for you and you are happy with it then this is great. I have only brought Guy's simple little trick back to life, with all its limitations, so that others might have another tool in their accessory bag should they wish to try it.

Sat at the computer yesterday and set up my GXR backs R1-> my GRD had place of honour at the default "R0", GRDIII=R9, GX100=R8, CX1=R7, R10=R6, R4=R5. Done. Didn't have to do it but if I was shooting my mouth off about Guy's system then I really had to test it to see if if cracked up my cameras (grin). So I might cause a stir at the tourist site with my "10" cameras - who cares - everybody knows that I am mad already.

Put little dymo-made tags on the cameras "R1", etc so that I can associate cameras with files. They can simply be uploaded into one directory per day to give me an auto file name based index that can either be sorted in date/time order or by file name. Sure the information can be found in exif or I could rename files in a stream as I upload in something other than file manager, but this described system might work as well, I will give it a try even though Guy and I might be the only ones doing so.

Guy picked up on my thread on dpreview - alas he has generally moved on to other camera pastures, but he says that other makes sometimes allow the whole prefix to be changed including the alpha portions. Therefore this method is not restricted to Ricoh cameras but seems universal in one form or another. With Ricoh the "R" prefix at least cannot be changed and I have not investigated how many prefix numeric digits are remembered.

It also shows that Guy's system has worked on his Ricoh cameras and continues to work for him across camera brands and has done so for years.

So it is a "lot of trouble" for no purpose? Well it was not much trouble and should be fairly automatic from here in. I can still use EXIF and all the personal directory structure tricks that I have evolved separately.

Yours from the coalface,

Tom