Fight! GXR A12 28/2.5 vs. GF2 14/2.5 vs. DP1x 28/4

[odklizec]

Thanks for answering my post! I think we are in the same train... but... Why Ricoh don´t release a "GXR-like" as a new GRD V camera with a fixed "normal" lens and a medium size sensor?

Well, what do you consider to be a "medium size sensor"?...APSC? I'm afraid, it's impossible to pack the APSC into the GRD-sized body, especially not if it should maintain its fast and nearly distortion free 28/1.9 lens. It's simply physically and technically impossible. And I'm afraid, there is no commercially available sensor with size just between the currently used 1/1.7" in GRDIV and APSC in GXR modules. Even if they could buy 4/3 from Oly/Pana or let's say smaller 1" sensor from Nikon, it would still require much larger body and especially larger lens, to keep the fast aperture and nearly distortion free design. Check for example the upcoming DP1m and its 28/2.8 lens size...
http://www.dpreview.com/products/sigma/ ... sigma_dp1m
Now consider how big lens would be required for the GRD with APSC and more than 1EV stop faster 28/1.9 lens! In one word - BIG! This is also why the X1 starts at 35/2.8, or existing DP1 at 28/4. And BTW, Sigma's Foveon is even a bit smaller than the APSC used in Ricoh/Leica cameras!

In other words, Ricoh already "did" what you are asking for. It's just called GXR + A12 28mm module. It's basically the GRD-like camera with larger sensor and noticeably improved output over the GRD. But yes, it's probably a bit too large if one is accustomed to the GRD size? Life is not an easy thing

 

[streetshooter]

The thing is, in 10 years, the GXR will still be a great camera.
I love the GRD's, I have a few. I like the gritty files from them.
The thing is, the magic of the GXR is that it allows you to reconfigure the camera to a new way your thinking.

Well, you could be right... But I´m 45 years old, and I can´t wait too long to show the "world" (it could be just me!) what I´m trying to do with my pictures. I want IQ pictures in the 35-50mm range in a camera that I can put in my pocket. Am I asking too much? Come on Ricoh, you can do it!

That's the problem with youth. You guys have no patience. At 63 I've learned all good things come in time.
In the meantime, the best thing is right in front of us as Pavel also stated, the GXR.

 

[Marcus E.]

Beg to differ streetshooter! IMHO patience comes usually with attitude and understanding, not necessarily age.....I've met quite a few impatient oldies in my time... :shock:
At 49 and having spent 17 years working with kids under 5, patience had to be learned a long time ago! :lol:
Agree with you totally re: GXR though......
And all things may come in time, good or not so good...
BTW No offence intended whatsoever!

 

[streetshooter]

Marcus , I have no patience for you....

Just kidding..... Your right of course, just ask my wife, friends, family, collectors, galleries and anyone else...
All will agree with you....

 

[CHICHORNIO]

In other words, Ricoh already "did" what you are asking for. It's just called GXR + A12 28mm module. It's basically the GRD-like camera with larger sensor and noticeably improved output over the GRD. But yes, it's probably a bit too large if one is accustomed to the GRD size? Life is not an easy thing

I´m not a technical expert in sensor sizes or optics, that´s why I´m asking for your advice. A 28mm (35mm format) it´s a wide angle for my style of shooting. I would prefer a 35-45mm range (not A12 50mm macro, too tele). My "dream come true" combo will be something like this (it´s a Frankestein you may say):
1. GRD body (could be a little bigger but not too much)
2. Fixed 35-45mm range prime lens with a of 2.0 F aperture or 2.4
3. ASP-C sensor or some "new" sensor that could be fit in the GRD body (why not buying the 46mp Foveon?
4. Of course, all the Ricoh´s interface and build quality
Am I asking too much?

 

[streetshooter]

Basically your camera, (maybe not dream) would be the X100.
It fits what you spec'd out and the new firmware gives the raw button some freedom.
Great street camera....

 

[CHICHORNIO]

Basically your camera, (maybe not dream) would be the X100.
It fits what you spec'd out and the new firmware gives the raw button some freedom.
Great street camera....

Yeap, I was thinking a lot about the X100 a couple months ago...but the the DP2 Merrill with it´s 46mp is on the way...It´s hard to take a decision, after seeing what the foveon files delivers. The DP2s it´s hard to manage, specially because the AF, but the RAW files of the Foveon up to 100 ISO are unbeatable! Unfortunately I don´t have the chance to try them here in my country, not even the luck to see one, so my decision it´s harder than everybody else. I´ll be waiting for the reviews of the DP2 Merrill and maybe a side by side comparision with the X100 and the GXR plus the A12 50mm. Thanks a lot!

 

[streetshooter]

Understood. I also have a sleeping passion for the DP cameras.
Unfortunately I get up to 3200 a lot. That realm is where the GXR wakes up and other cameras nod off to sleep....
Good luck with the Merrill.

 

[streetshooter]

Oh.....the X100. I sold mine and posted it was because I needed money. I was admin at a hot forum and if I post, it's taken for gospel. Anyway, The issue I had was the finder,
No, not the finders but using them. I have an aversion to a camera hiding my face on the street. Actually, anytime I make images.
So the X100 lost the battle against many cameras but was sold due to the pure simple pleasure the GXR brought me.
If you like using a finder, can live with a single FOV of 35mm, the X100 can't be beat even by the GXR.
I've seen some for sale in my area for like $725.00 USD.
What a steal.....

 

[CHICHORNIO]

f you like using a finder, can live with a single FOV of 35mm, the X100 can't be beat even by the GXR.

Well, because the slow contrast AF the Sigma DP2s has, I´ve found a tournaround. I do like using a viewfinder. Actually I have the ultrabright 40mm Voitglander VF and I do not use the LCD screen of my Sigma (only to check my shots) But I´ve only used it in very bright days (the picture I posted was taken that way) using AF, VF, LCD off and listening to the sound of the camera telling me that I focused my target. On night shots, I only use the LCD screen and manual focus. I would like to know if the new DP2 Merrill get an improvement in AF.

 

[streetshooter]

I have heard from a trusted source that the Merrill version is more fine tuned. So hopefully this will lead to improved performance. I learned to be very patient with the DP cameras. On the 1 I used the focus wheel more then the screen.
The fact that the camera is not the fastest AF around didn't bother that much because I really took my time with it. They advertise that method of working with the camera.
Then there's my favorite thing on the DPs that no other camera has....
The sounds it makes are totally awesome.

 

[madmaxmedia]

I agree with you 100% Shooter on Ricoh. It just makes it even more unfair in a comparison when the other 2 cameras seem to get poor post-processing that gives then inferior IQ as well!

Well, there's so much more involved then just simple Image comparisons. When I was the Admin at M-43 I had a few cameras but more importantly, I had access to everything in the M43 realm. The technology development is unmatched by any other format so far. That being said, it doesn't amount to a hill of beans. The DP series and any and all M43 cameras don't hold a candle to the GXR.
The GXR is a camera for shooters. Maybe when one gets a GXR they aren't that serious about what's going on but they eventually fall into the discovery of images.
The M43 cameras and unfortunately the DP's from Sigma don't have the same energy. The are great cameras for the enthusiast. That's great but for the real shooters, they need a camera with a very intelligent interface and most importantly, a camera that doesn't interfere with the shooters process. The GXR does that. Once set up, it gets out of the way and if you get stuck on a setting etc, it's just a button push to get back in the groove.

So, let them all compare IQ, ISO all the good stuff. Let them talk about the speed and accuracy of their AF system. Let them all talk about how great their new lens is....
The GXR shooters don't have time to talk about that stuff because they are too busy making images.

I'm not a fanboy for Ricoh. I'm a dead serious shooter that makes images because it's my life's work. I could use any camera I want but I use the GXR because it works....bunk to anything else....
Don

 

[madmaxmedia]

Interestingly TMP, I just bought a GXR w/ A12 28mm (haven't received it yet), and own a Ricoh GV-1 viewfinder (the fat one with 21 and 28mm lines). I'm planning on selling the GV-1 since I don't use it much (the LCD is fine and with 28mm view I often just shoot blind anyway), but can do some quick informal testing if you'd like. Ricoh advertises the GV-1 for both GR Digital and GXR I assume it should work reasonably well.

The choice between Sigma and Ricoh is pretty simple to me, they are so completely different cameras for different types of shooters. I love Foveon output but the DP bodies are not for me.

Well...

Some of you know that I sold my Ricoh GR D III for a GF1 with its 40mm f1.7 lens (in 35mm format).

I am now seriously considering going back to Ricoh and go for a GXR with the A12 28mm f2.5 module. However, I have to look deeper into the compatibility of optical view finders with the GXR (see here: viewtopic.php?f=60&t=6175).

That being said, given the sensor size of the Panasonic GFx series, it is noisier -- both in terms of image quality AND sound (a big issue for street photography). More importantly, there is no decent manual focus capabilities when working with an optical view finder on the GFx series (another big issue for street photography). As for the Sigma, its sensor is bigger but suffice to say that the lens starts at f4 and that you either love or hate the Foveon output.

So, Ricoh it is, once more.

 

[luke76]

How about additional function button option to enable/disable focus assist light and button option to toggle the addition of +1EV over the current setting (eg if currently 0EV, will toggle 0EV/+1EV; if currently -1/3EV, will toggle +2/3EV/-1/3EV), ie a quick "backlit scene" button, just as many compact film cameras had.