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Cult cameras project

Missed the RD1 myself. I remember at least "thinking" about it then having a quiet choke about the price. Was obviously not alone. The same went for the LC1 aka DL-2. No way anyone "with brains" could justify the entry price even for the cheaper LC1 which only lacked some metal knobs and the famous mark applied at the Panasonic works. From memory the LC1 was AUD$2,800 at the time. The suddenly they had a run out at $1,400 and I made myself afford one, and then they were gone. Many, including myself, waited anxiously for the "replaceable lensed" LC2 that never was. Those that missed the run-out of the LC1 or simply passed on the LC1 because the LC2 could not be far away missed out big time (sorry Tim).

Then Panasonic made the very forgettable L1, I am glad that common sense got the better of me there.

For every cult camera there are others that bombed on the market and are therefore rare but could not possibly be sought after other than for their "rare" factor. Reports from owners of the L1 at the time reported a high degree of satisfaction with their purchase. Personally I was never jealous.

Perhaps the definition has to be of a camera that was not sold in great numbers but is still revered and sought after. Perhaps some of these cameras have not yet created their cult and that in order to do so some outstanding game-changing unique feature that they introduced has to be recognised. The final seal of a to-be-cult model is it is one that despite it's extraordinary advantages the manufacturer stopped making them and did not release an upgrade. Perhaps the GRD, for instance, might fail this test. But to draw a fine line - the GRD/GRDII were not precisely upgraded with the GRDIII/GRDIV as the latter cameras are much more complex than the former and although in a similar sized box the GRD is not directly superseded by the GRDIII. Only a GRD enthusiast could explain why. So the GRD might make the "no longer made" test by a whisker.

To put a case for the almost unknown Samsung NV7: this camera was the Rolls-Royce of the Samsung line at the time and probably priced at a level that no one was prepared to pay for "a Samsung". Innovative context driven proximity sensitive button menu system was so easy and intiuitive to use and a body built to standards that have rarely been equalled. Great lens and 7x zoom. Very slim body but the lens was bulbous when "everybody" was looking for a flat-pack compact. Took/takes great images. Quirks were a hardly good enough battery life and a three-level focus system - one normal, a macro, and a super-macro with no automatic change-over. Which meant that even focusing at 3 metres would not work until you figured out that you have to switch to macro. Once understood, no problem.

Again Tom was quick to snap up one when Samsung dumped their remaining unsold stocks of this camera at a price that was irresistable. However one man waving (raving) hardly a cult might make?

I seem to recollect a lot of good talk about a Sony(?) R1(?) - I am not sure of the model designation, but it was quite large with a big zoom and had the lcd on the top of the camera. Not something I ever fancied myself (liked the top mounted lcd - not so sure about the size) but from the raves of owners at the time they sounded happy-chappies.

In the digital camera world surely these cameras will eventually fade and die simply because their batteries no longer work and the manufacturers in their brilliance dictate that many, if not most, of these cameras had their own unique batteries. Even batteries of similar size and capacity often have unique terminal keying.

Tom
 
Rog Tallbloke":3doi7aqa said:
Tom Caldwell":3doi7aqa said:
The Canon Pro90 IS was way ahead of its time and still loved by at least myself.

I used a powershot pro 70 which I acquired very cheaply long after they were considered obsolete. It produced exceptionally good images for web use.

The Pro70 had come and went before the Pro90 arrived. It had good reports. I had to twist a dealer's arm to get him to order in a Pro90 when they were still new and had a retail of AUD$2,600, the dealer was kind and let me have it for a lordly $2,400. No dealer would stock them as they regarded them too expensive to sell (seem familiar). They had a 3mp sensor which was cropped to 2.6mp to allow their old slow focusing zoom lens to adjust it's image circle. Olympus also had another cult camera whose designation I forget that used the identical lens. In any case $1,500 was about as much as anyone would part with for one of those new-fangled digital "thingies" at the time. So relatively few Pro90's were sold. Then all of a sudden small-sensor 4 and 5mp cameras became available and the expensive larger sensor but less mp Pro90 was dead in the water. The mp race had begun. Canon dumped their remaining stocks of the Pro90, but for years afterwards the Pro90 would take images that bettered anything the the new megapixel monsters might produce. Famously I bought up a number of second hand Pro90's and gave them to my kids. They loved them. One vendor asked to buy back his Pro90 (seriously) as he had replaced it with an early model Canon Rebel and did not like the replacement.

Given the choice of a new G4 or the then already getting old Pro90 one son chose to take his Pro90 for a tour of Europe.

I can pull out a Pro90 today and be amazed by two things - firstly how ancient it feels to use and secondly how great the images caught still are.

The Pro90 has a lot to answer for in my book - I spent a lot of money trying to find a satisfactory upgrade for that camera, perhaps the LC1 was the first one to make that grading.

Tom
 
There's a mint LC1 on UK ebay for £540 at the moment. The thing about obsolete digicams is that apart from the IQ, you need to consider shot to shot times, screen size (and brightness), battery replacement, AF performance etc if you want to really use one. Otherwise we are talking about collectors items here.

Personally, I prefer to keep moving forward, and the GXR system pretty much has it all for me, apart from easy shirt pocketability.
I might look out for a broken LC1 to cannibalise for its lens though. It must be possible to attach an M mount to it :)

Different people might have different reasons for visiting Radical's proposed site:
Bargain hunters
Collectors
Nostalgia writers

The batteries are the big issue. Is there a market for a battery which can be 'skinned' with snap on shells which convert it to fit these classics?
 
The site is more for people who want a "bondable" camera. I go from the premise that you take better photographs with a camera that you love. Case and point is the Ricohs. They awoke something in me, dunno what. So the website will be anti GAS in a sense, because I go from a second premise that you use the camera you love and focus more on photography. Make sense?
The LC is def cult. And also Canon S90-S100...
 
You always know that you are getting old when you say "I remember".

Well ... I remember that often in second hand auctions of obsolete office gear you would see piles of the special ribbons or other consumables for that "Somename" typewriter. Consumables that cunningly would only fit that particular brand. I guess they ended up in the rubbish tip.

At least the internet and eBay have made it a whole lot easier to match up buyer and seller. Selling/Buying an LC1 is now a certainty at whatever the market values it and it is probably possible to get their special batteries until they become as expensive as the camera itself.

An LC1 "mini-review":

The LC1 was said to be worth the money for its lens alone. The controls are traditional with focus, aperture, zoom on the lens and a speed dial on top (feels very comfortable this way). Panasonic/Leica were still experimenting with the rest of the interface but it was not bad. The evf (yes "evf only" predating the EVIL-type camera - none of this silly nostalgic ovf rubbish) is positioned to the left and seems well placed in use and quite effective, has to be changed-over via a button. The trick flash has two stages and can be set to bounce flash which is quite clever. It had a 4/5 mp sensor - not sure which as (unusually) it is not trumpeted by the usual external stickers - far too upmarket and discreet for that.

All the compartments have separate well made spring loaded doors, including a separate one for the sd card. Unlike many reputable makers of quality cameras that still cover the "other doors" with moulded rubber "fanstastics". I guess it was the attention to detail that made this camera model expensive and therefore rare but now sought after.

The LC1 sitting next to me with it's "el brute'" 28-90mm f2.0-2.4 lens that probably was more a converted slr lens the "thickness" of the body is apparent - presumably to cope with the flange back distance. Seems logical that Leica might have had a bunch of these nice lenses left over and sitting in the inventory. Job lot - turn them into cameras - "what, sold the lot?" "Well a new batch is going to be 'really expensive' ".

So whilst LC1 lovers waited and fretted for the never to be made LC2 the digital camera world moved on.

Obviously Panasonic and Leica hovered on the edge of a true EVIL type wonder, but the moment passed and they went in separate directions on this issue at least.

Sitting next to the LC1 is my GXR with A12 mount module the LC1 looks like a very well proportioned but bloated "tank" next to the petite equally well proportioned Ricoh which must be the logical conclusion of what the LC1 set out to do. Now if Ricoh might just "borrow" the trick flash extention mechanism from the LC1 and build in an evf then the GXR might reach "perfection" (oh, and give us back that rear wheel of the GRD instead of the less than perfect jog lever).

In the hand the GXR "feels" heavier although is only 638g against the 754g of the physically much larger LC1. Mass takes a hand here and the GXR mass is obviously more concentrated making the GXR feel heavier than it looks and the bulkier LC1 almost feel "flyweight". Of course the exchangeable lens A12 mount shows how the LC1 might have evolved and also makes the combined weight of GXR+A12mount+Lens quite variable. Finding a lens equivalent to the LC1 lens might be hard but I have weighed my GXR with the very nice Pentacon labelled late version M42 Meyer "Lydith" 30mm f3.5 in "plain wrapper" (not labelled Lydith) so as to speak.

I am increasing becoming more enchanted with the Zeiss factory's less well regarded country cousins. But that is another story - cult lenses.

Tom
 
Tom Caldwell":2d69zdqn said:
But that is another story - cult lenses.

Tom

I'll play. First off the Minolta / Leica 40mm f2 as supplied with a Leica CL or Minolta CLE.
Anything in a Holga - while not technically good, the imagery has a cult following.
An unusual one was the Zuiko 21mm f2. Rare as rockin horse manure and those that had them kept them.
 
Lets go for rocking horse manure first - How about the Meyer-Optik Telefogar 90mm f3.5 in Altix mount? I have one of these little beauties - Apparently only made for the Altix camera it is said that a few were made in M42 . Rumour has it that the Altix mount version can/has been converted to M42 or PK, but nowhere on the web is there any real how-to. Going to make the attempt somehow to get the first one on to LM mount. Said to be very sharp. If I ever get there and it works it will be real rocking horse manure indeed. Altix to "anything" adpaters? Don't be silly, these are simple mounts but breech lock and would be fiddly to make - there are hardly enough Altix mounts lenses about for anyone to be interested in making a batch.

No doubt if we are going to gratuitously add cult lenses to the mix we should be wary of including those that are extremely good but have four digits after the first number before it gets to the decimal point. This is a sort of cult where the initiation ceremony is more than most can suffer. Cult lenses that are cheap are interesting to very mainstream would-be-cultist that might even be able to join into the fun. Of course one man's cult is another man's rubbish ... what the heck, when you are in a cult you care nothing for mere outsiders.

On the basis of cheap-cults I would recommend that everyone has at least one of a "Lensbaby" (any type) or a Loreo "Lens in a Cap" which is a pinhole lens in adjustable stops of f5.6, f8.0, f1, f32.0 and f64.0 (the last being that exclusive tiny opening that might get you into the super club - or it might not). Another fun lens is the Loreo "Perspective Control Lens in a Cap" which allows left and right lens shifting but sadly only two f-stops - f11.0 and f22.0. These are fun-cults and not look-at-what-I-have-got cults. They are the sort of cults where your beaming smile is regarded more as the smile of an idiot rather than the face of someone who really knows what to buy but is not quite sure on how to use it yet.

However if you truly want to joining the sophisticated lens cult club with the GXR A12 mount then surely you cannot go past a Russian Jupiter-12 35mm f2.8. Something that will have the German lens purists weeping in their coffee cups still swearing that the Russian camera industry has never made a decent lens. Of course it is "LTM" but it does fit inside the A12 mount with the simple adapter, whilst it will not fit inside many others, if any, but the genuine Leica and it's Zorki and FED cousins. At least this keeps the demand a bit reasonable and the price affordable. If you hunt around a bit I think that you can still find a good J-12 at a half decent bargain price. Be prepared for the "all Russian lenses are rubbish" categorisation though.

Tom
 
I don't know why I was notified that there had been a recent post to this useful thread, but now I am here I will note that I designed and made a working M42 mount adapter ring for the Altix mount - or rather adapted an Altix mount to M42 - not only that but infinity focus is correct. Quite pleased with my little engineering efforts. Now I have one of the very few Meyer Telefogars with an M42 thread.

Tom
 
Tom Caldwell":1rbr1xj2 said:
I don't know why I was notified that there had been a recent post to this useful thread, but now I am here I will note that I designed and made a working M42 mount adapter ring for the Altix mount - or rather adapted an Altix mount to M42 - not only that but infinity focus is correct. Quite pleased with my little engineering efforts. Now I have one of the very few Meyer Telefogars with an M42 thread.

Tom

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