built-in viewfinder or not?

[odklizec]

GRDIII announcement started quite interesting (and heated) discussion about "missing" integrated optical viewfinder. One camp calls for it (even at a cost of larger body or tunnel-like view) the other strongly disagrees (because of larger body and tunnel-like view) and prefers external OVF/EVF solution. So what's you preference?

Let's see what options we have...

Built-in OVF
+ integrated in camera
+ no additional costs
- too small with tunnel like view - comfortable sized OVF would make the camera too big...see G10
- larger body - there is really no space for OVF in current GRD body
- no status info - status info would make the camera even larger
- view partially obscured by lens, completely blocked with attached lens accessories
- no diopter adjustment

External OVF
+ relative comfortable view - much better than any built-in OVF
+ can be attached/detached at user's will, so the camera remains pocketable
- can be lost
- additional costs - external OVFs are somewhat pricey $100+
- no status info
- no diopter adjustment
- blocked flash hot shoe

External EVF
+ real-time preview with entire status info and histogram (WYSIWYG)
+ diopter adjustment
+ can be attached/detached at user's will, so the camera remains pocketable
- can be lost - only if there is a hole in your pocket. GX EVF is secure locked in hot shoe
- additional costs - external EVFs is somewhat pricey $150+
- slower refresh & grainy view (not if used G1-like high-res LCD)
- less useful in bright sun light and in too dark conditions
- blocked flash hot shoe

External OVF with electronic layer(!) - this one is very hypothetical and highly improbable
+ dream symbiosis of optical view + electronic layer with status info and histogram
+ can be attached/detached at user's will, so the camera remains pocketable
- EXPENSIVE, EXPENSIVE, EXPENSIVE and I mean REALLY expensive!
- can be lost (I would not want to lose it)
- blocked flash hot shoe
- nobody did it before
- did I say EXPENSIVE?

 

[Grape]

Ideally, it would be a built-in OVF for me. Something similar to the Contax T2, T3 or the tiny Rollei (which has a very nice OVF). Especially in a fixed lens camera like the GRD—albeit a larger body. Those analog camera finders are neither small nor tunnel like. I find the G10 finder pretty bad and useless.

But it seems impossible to have a good analog type finder on a digital body. So I would go for an external OVF. I have never seen or used an EVF. :?

 

[socket]

I like the existing external EVF on my GX100, although I would like to have better resolution. I have to guess sometimes if people are smiling in the more medium distance shots - but then again, I'm getting older now and it may just be my failing eyesight...

I like the fact that what I see in the viewfinder is what is captured by the camera. The ability to point the EVF upwards also adds to its flexibility and, as I'm tall, makes some shots more comfortable (as I can look down instead of having to crouch down).

I did buy a second hand Voigtlander 35mm brightline OVF - but have not felt a need to use it!

 

[tommy]

I think they should invent something new and crazy. Like a remote elastic screen that you could attach to your clothing. Then you can press the camera against whatever body part feels most suitable at the time, while comfortably watching the framing on the remote screen. Maybe it would free up some space for larger censor and wider/faster lens? Every techno blob nowadays have a screen: the phone, the PDA, the camera, the wrist watch, the step counter, the mp3-player, the GPS. Why can't they all use the same screen or screens? The I could shoot with my sleeve screen, and review on the hotel's panorama screen.

 

[CHICHORNIO]

NONE. I bought the Voitglander viewfinder for my GRII and I found it useless for my type of photographs. With no viewfinder I fell free to place the camera wherever I want, in high or low angle. The LCD in low light conditions works pretty well anyway. The shot I´m attaching is a kind of picture where the viewfinder is almost not worthy.

 

[thelps]

I think I am sitting on the fence here over this one - its a tough choice - I want a viewfinder but do not want to pay in having a larger camera. If the GRD IV gets bigger we will all complain.

I think External EVF with the additional choice of External OVF - provided the camera size does not grow significantly.
The EVFs are getting better, if you have a chance to see the Panasonic G1 EVF its quite good - but still not perfect.

If Ricoh chose not to make an ExOVF then you could always use some other manufacturers. Nothing to stop you putting a Sigma DP1 ExOVF on your GX200 and set it to start at 28mm.
Both should be accessory items so that you are not forced to pay for them if you don't want to buy. The existing idea of buying a GX200 with OR without ExEVF is great.

What about if the External EVF (or ExOVF) attached to the LEFT SIDE of the GRD (as you use the GRD) instead of the Hot Shoe? :?

You could have a case with a longer flap for when the EVF is attached or pocket carry may still work for longer pockets. :lol:
This would be a more Leica M like experience with using the camera also, and the hot shoe free for a flash. Just a thought!

 

[thelps]

BTW: I was thinking about a left side mounted External EVF and for a similar concept have a look at the Olympus XA with its side mounted screw in flash - but for Ext EVF instead.

http://www.cameraquest.com/xa4.htm

I had an XA for many years. I still am upset that I sold it!!! :cry:

 

[Grus74]

Before I found out about the wonderful little GRD-cameras I was mainly shooting with a Lomo camera wich has an almost totaly uselsess viewfinder. This, and the "spirit" of Lomo, made me shooting from all kind of angles and never holding the camera up to my face. So now I shoot much in the same way but have the oportunity to control my shot on the screen. Great! But on my D60 I just bought it would feel very strange to shoot this way and I don't miss the lack of a live view mode at all. Still great! Just different cameras and different techniques.

Guess I'm trying to say that the GRD can't be everything for everybody. There will probably never be just ONE camera that covers ALL your needs. Feels like many people has the opinion that if "just one more feature" was added then it would be great. If I would get my wish I'd say that keep the GRD as it is, it's bloody brilliant! Just make "small" steps, as from I - III. And sure, make an external viewfinder if you like but don't change the GRD into something it isn't because I'm afraid the magic will be gone then.

Sorry if I sound grumpy but had to get it off my chest.

 

[mr.datsun]

I love my GRD as it is but I'd also love it more if a reasonable OVF could be built in. I only use the LCD screen for taking photographs and then maybe for quick checks. To really look at them I view them on the computer. The LCD could be made smaller if needed to fit an OVF.