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Ricoh Image Stabilization

Detail Man

New Member
I have for some time taken an interest in the effectiveness of "sensor-shift" image stabilization approaches in general.

Ricoh cameras appear to (like Fuji and Sony) use "sensor-shift" technology - as opposed to what might be called the "optical-shift" technology used by Panasonic, Canon, etc.

In reading reviews of Fuji cameras (I always have taken an interest in their "Super CCD" image-sensors), I have seen many reviewers (pretty universally) rate the Fuji implementation as not very effective. Reviews of Sony cameras (of which I have read only a few, so maybe I missed it) don't seem to say much about the effectiveness of Sony's implementation of "sensor-shift" stabilization.

In the handful of reviews that I have read about Ricoh cameras (R10, Cx1, and CX2), reviewers appear to consider the Ricoh implementation of "sensor-shift" stabilization technology as "very good".

What is your opinion of that effectiveness (as compared to the "optical-shift" stabilization implementations of Panasonic, Canon. etc.)?

What is your opinion of that effectiveness (as compared to other "sensor-shift" stabilization implementations by Fuji, Sony, etc.)?

I know that this is a dicey and speculative matter, but - how many (real, as opposed to manufacturer claimed) "stops" of image-stabilization would you say that your own Ricoh camera (on the average) provides?
 
I have found that the image stabilization tends to ADD blur to the pictures from my Ricoh CX-1, not detract, so I mainly leave it turned off.
 
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Thanks for your impressions! It's good to hear your opinions from "hands-on" use. When I "Google" the words "Ricoh" and "image stabilization", the opinions seem quite diverse. However, "reviewers" likely do not spend a lot of time using the cameras that they review (as opposed to camera owners), so I consider an actual owner's opinions as perhaps likely to be more informed.

I was also wondering: Can the user select "sensor-shift" image-stabilization (alone) without the ISO Sensitivity also being simultaneously increased? The Fuji cameras give the user no option (it is both or nothing). I found this information regarding the Ricoh R8 (and perhaps the R50 also) - but no other mentions about such a combination in search results describing other Ricoh models:
"The R8 uses a 10-megapixel CCD sensor with Ricoh's own Smooth Imaging Engine ll image processing chip. This combination provides two types of image stabilization: the common electronic (where the sensitivity of the image sensor is boosted) and mechanical, where the image sensor itself moves slightly to react to camera shake."
http://www.digitalcamerainfo.com/conten ... -17734.htm

(For cameras accepting add-on lenses), a clear advantage that "sensor-shift" image-stabilization has over "lens-shift" approaches is compatibility with external lenses.
A somewhat dated (despite the more recent date shown at the bottom of the web-page), but interesting comparison of the two approaches can be found at:
http://www.neocamera.com/feature_stabil ... otout.html


Here are some of the statements about the effectiveness of image-stabilization for various Ricoh cameras that I found:

Caplio R8: "The maximum zoom capability of the R8 is 7.1x. That is a seriously large range. Digicam users would know that the longer the zoom range, the more blurring if the camera is shaken. With the great image stabilization feature, even that is totally eliminated."
http://www.associatedcontent.com/articl ... tml?cat=15

CX1: "The camera has a sensor-shift image stabilization system (which is for still shooting only) that seems to do an effective job of reducing the risk of blurry photos."
http://www.dcresource.com/reviews/ricoh ... ew/compare

GX200: "The image stabilization helps here, providing up to two more stops handholdability in our tests using DxO Analyzer 3.0.1 -- a very good performance for so short a lens."
http://www.popphoto.com/Reviews/Cameras ... amera-Test

GX100: "Optical image stabilization is provided, and while maybe not as aggressive as that from some makers, does an adequate job."
http://www.luminous-landscape.com/revie ... x100.shtml

GX100: "The Ricoh has standard activated the image stabilization. It works so inconspicuous that at first I did not even notice that the camera has been equipped with this technique. No jittering viewfinder image, no strange sound with the lens...nothing. Only sharp images, even with little light. I might say that Ricoh's image stabilization works very well. I couldn't find any reason to turn it off."
http://www.letsgodigital.org/en/camera/ ... age_4.html

GX100: "... the image stabilization is pretty good ..."
http://www.tbray.org/ongoing/When/200x/ ... icoh-GX100

GR Digital II: "The GR Digital II is currently the flagship Ricoh compact and occupies a unique position in the "serious compact" market. It isn't the right compact for most people, even amongst those who appreciate advanced compacts. For starters, it doesn't zoom, lacks image stabilization, and sells for $500 at the time of this review (down from a $700 street price at introduction). That said, nearly every photographer I know who has tried this compact for as little as one week has been taken with it.
http://www.seriouscompacts.com/2008/12/ ... _6960.html

GR Digital III: "Sorry for those interest in modern day features like face detection systems and image stabilization. You won’t find it, but don’t be worried either. Your experience will make the difference with this camera. And since the camera has a wide angle lens I didn’t miss the image stabilization. But to be fair and honest, I never use it either for my Ricoh GX200."
http://wouter28mm.wordpress.com/2009/09 ... pressions/

Odklizec commenting about using certain Ricoh models not utilizing image-stabilization:
" ... With GRDII, I used ISO400 and f2.4 for almost all dimly lit situations and even with atached GT1 it gave me around 1/10 - 1/20 of sec, which was enough to take sharp photos. With A12 and ISO1600/3200 you should be able to get much higher shutter speeds with much less noise than with GRDII or III. True, GRDII/III has an advantage of higher DoF, which is especially welcome for low-light photography."
http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read. ... e=33797594

500 SE GPS: "Image stabilization is excellent."
http://geocode4pros.com/ricoh_caplio_500se_review.htm
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Interesting topic- I tend to leave image stabilisation switched on but Im going to try shooting with my R10 with it off. I switch stabilisation off on my Sony A300 DSLR when using a tripod. One gets to rely on it and to be honest is it alway necessary ? Im considering buying the GRD111 which of course doesn't have it.
 
I never found the image stabilization in Ricoh cameras useful. I never missed it in GRD and I did not see much difference if used with GX or R/CX cameras. I prefer to use continuous mode instead of IS. BTW, IS cannot be used together with Continuous mode. And there is always a chance of blurred result due to IS. So all in all, I prefer to keep the IS OFF.
 
Minniesmum":1knsorys said:
Interesting topic- I tend to leave image stabilisation switched on but Im going to try shooting with my R10 with it off. I switch stabilisation off on my Sony A300 DSLR when using a tripod. One gets to rely on it and to be honest is it alway necessary ? Im considering buying the GRD111 which of course doesn't have it.
Does using the (sensor-shift) stabilization on the R10 also force you to allow the camera to make an automated decision as to the ISO Sensitivity as well (as it appears was the case for the R8, from what I have read in the review that I referenced in my post above)? I (personally) am no fan of any automated mechanisms that "decide" ISO Sensitivity for the user ("do-it-myselfer" that I am ... ;) )

In my own case (of often having to shooting hand-held, or with only a mono-pod, on the muddy and unstable shores of the creek where I like to take nature shots in the low light levels present under the "green canopy" of tree-leaves, and/or at decreasing light levels at times nearing dusk, or occasionally after dawn), I literally could not function at all in these environments without the image stabilization in my Panasonics. (Even with stabilization operating), camera-stability is a significant issue for me, and my yield (even with stabilization) is fairly spotty (due to the low light levels, higher F-Numbers, and correspondingly slower shutter speeds that I like to attempt to employ).

As you (very likely already yourself) know, stabilization when using a tripod only makes sense when one is manually depressing the "shutter-button" (thus inducing some amount of camera movement), as opposed to using a timer or "remote-shutter release". In such a case (of using a tripod, and manually depressing the shutter-button)) I have chosen to employ image-stabilization.

As far as battery-life is concerned, the Panasonics have two OIS modes ("continuously on", or the more energy-efficient "only activated when the shutter-button is half-depressed"). Panasonic claims up to 4 stops effective mechanical stabilization these days (since the FZ50 and LX3 have been released on the market). I estimate that I am only able to achieve 4 stops in the best-case when (also) using my mono-pod in conjunction with the OIS, and I am (also) able to effectively stabilize myself in grasping the mono-pod and depressing the shutter-button. It's probably (realistically) a more conservative 2-3 stops benefit when shooting hand-held in normal (non-braced) conditions.

Additionally, at shutter-times under 1/10 of a second, it becomes harder and harder to "hold it together". 1/8 second is usually as slow as I can hope to go hand-held. 1/6 second (or perhaps 1/5 second) requires my mono-pod to pull off. I have only rarely succeeded at 1/4 second, and only a few times at 1/3.2 second and 1/2 second (and that was with my more-stable 26 Ounce FZ30 and my FZ50 with mono-pod, well-braced, and with extreme concentration (and luck!). Nevertheless, it is truly amazing to to be able to even approach such shutter-times without a tripod, indeed!

I should note that (with my Panasonics) I have had to (for the sake of image signal/noise ratio) restrict ISO Sensitivity to 80 or 100. The only exception is my FZ50 shooting in "raw" mode (where ISO=200 does rather well without need for NR in post-processing). With my new LX3, I am hoping to shoot at ISO=200 (JPG or "raw") - and (perhaps) even at ISO=400 (in "raw") with the assistance of the highly regarded DxO Optics Pro NR algorithms. So far (in general), I never have liked what Silkypix or Neat Image noise-reduction does to image detail (though I never have tried Noise Ninja). I avoid having to apply NR as much as possible (even at the expense of the great effort and plain luck involved with flirting with such extremely long shutter-times shooting hand-held or with mono-pod).

Human muscle-tremors occur at frequencies of 15 CPS (and higher). One-quarter cycle (the initial rising portion) of a 15 CPS sinusoidal wave occurs in 1/60 second, with a return to baseline after 1/30 second total elapsed time. Thus, from the approximately 1/8 second lower limit when shooting hand-held, I (estimate) that the Panasonic OIS (unassisted by mono-pod and/or other mechanical "bracing") in the FZ30/50 (and hopefully in the LX3) provides something on the order of 3 stops of stabilization (as opposed to the Panasonic claimed "up to 4 stops"). And, the resultant yield is (at best) around 50% (on a good day). But, it is (to me) worth the handful of "rare gems" that my (semi-masochistic) techniques eventually yield ... :p
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odklizec":uqqyktxq said:
I never found the image stabilization in Ricoh cameras useful. I never missed it in GRD and I did not see much difference if used with GX or R/CX cameras. I prefer to use continuous mode instead of IS. BTW, IS cannot be used together with Continuous mode. And there is always a chance of blurred result due to IS. So all in all, I prefer to keep the IS OFF.
What do you mean by "continuous mode"? Do you mean something like a "continuous burst" mode (of sequential shots), or a "bracketing" mode (of exposure-level bracketed) shots? I apologize for not knowing much about Ricoh camera descriptive terms ... :p
 
Yep, I mean burst mode. I like to use this mode. Unfortunately, Ricoh cameras does not offer too much FPS in full frame/RAW mode. 2-3 fps is the best you can get (Except CX2, which can do 5fps in full frame mode. But there is no RAW and the image quality is not even close to GRD, GX or GXR). Of course, there are also high speed burst modes in all Ricoh cameras, with much nicer FPS rate. But these modes are limited to small resolution images and no RAW.
 
odklizec":1aeth0ut said:
Yep, I mean burst mode. I like to use this mode. Unfortunately, Ricoh cameras does not offer too much FPS in full frame/RAW mode. 2-3 fps is the best you can get (Except CX2, which can do 5fps in full frame mode. But there is no RAW and the image quality is not even close to GRD, GX or GXR). Of course, there are also high speed burst modes in all Ricoh cameras, with much nicer FPS rate. But these modes are limited to small resolution images and no RAW.
Something tells me that you are (when "bursting") seeking to capture many precious and dear moments with a certain "little angel" dear to your heart ... :p

When photographing the endless, varied, and fascinating facial expressions of my dear little friend Kendra when she was one year old, the fixed-focus that my Panasonic DMC-LZ5 imposed from the first "frame" onwards was not a big issue - as she had not yet begun to walk, and the camera to subject distance was, as a result, relatively fixed. It is truly remarkable how quickly those precious facial expressions and moments "fly by" as a 1-year old child can span the entire spectrum of human emotions in mere fractions of a seconds time! ... :| ... :eek: ... :shock: ... :lol: ... :x ... :p

I can understand from experience that the 2 images (or so) per second that my LZ5 captured fell short of the number that I would have liked to have (fully) captured.

However, once she began to "toddle" and walk ... all bets were off ... ;) They simply do not sit (or stand still) for more than a millisecond !!!

Perhaps you will find yourself investing in a video camera (or existing in-camera video) with dynamic re-focusing (from which one can extract individual frames) ...
I made a few (low-res, crappy quality) little MOV's with my LZ5 - but (now) wish that I had made quite a few more (and ones of higher quality)!

Here is a (to me) precious little sequence of emotions captured in LZ5 "burst-mode" when she was (nearly) one-year old ... :p
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I hope that you (and all) will pardon my brief indulgence - though Kendra is not my child, she is the "love and the light of my life", indeed!
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Detailman - I find my images with the LX3 are just fine at ISO400, so give it a try. In fact I find 800 to be acceptable for lots of images (but any higher only for BW). Another hint that I find helps me with low light images is to put the camera in burst mode where it takes 3 pictures in rapid succession. Often the first one will have some movement due to pushing the shutter but the 2nd or 3rd will often be much better. Works well even when you don't have IS, but the IS is very good on the LX3. And now we return to Ricoh news....
Michael
 
sonomichele -

Thanks for your impressions about LX3 image-noise (which I assume refer to the in-camera JPG case?). I have, indeed, seen a fair number of images (real-world and test) that show reasonable results in the ISO 400 to 800 range . After nearly four years (and four previous Panasonic cameras), I have evolved to be "gun-shy" of their in-camera JPG NR, responding (instead) by limiting all to ISO=200 at most.

ISO=200 is certainly looking rather viable (in my own LX3 shots, as well as in a bevy of 100%-crop samples I have seen in LX3 reviews) in JPG recording. I (personally) see "perturbations" beginning to appear at ISO=400 in the JPG "crops" that I see might well send me to wanting to apply (further) NR in post-processing.This, however, seems to bode well for the ISO=400 possibilities in RW2 recording. The reported higher dynamic-range of this newer 1/1.63" diagonal image-sensor (as compared to the, typically, around 1/2.5" diagonal range) does appear to please ... :p
The LX3 image-sensor (in physical dimensions of the active-area, and the pixel-pitch) being very similar to that of my FZ50's image sensor, I am very interested in what this newer incarnation can provide in terms of (peak) signal to (average) noise via RW2 image files, relative to the (also) 10 Mpixel (in 4:3 aspect ratio mode) RAW image files from my FZ50, and its image-sensor.

Trying "burst-modes" early-on with my DMC-LZ5 with OIS active, the subsequent shots (usually) seemed to me to (more often, and for some reason(s)) be less detailed relative to the first shot (by virtue of "camera-shake" and/or or small changes in the camera-subject distance to the extent that such would focusing in such a "fixed-focus" case) . Are you referring to applying your above suggested technique (with, or without) OIS being operational (or does that matter, in your observations)? I would be curious to know.

I realize that (in my previous brief experimentation with the LZ5), a number of elements relating to what and how I was shooting may have contributed to these observed results - and the quality itself of the (once fixed) auto-focus itself in the first place (from the humble LZ5 to the present day LX3) has hopefully been improved in product engineering over that time.

Of the efficacy so far observed (in the DMC-TZ4, anyway) Panasonic Venus IV Engine low-light auto-focus in general:
Note: I am still "gun-shy" on the lower light-level abilities of the Venus IV Engine to manage auto-focus as well as the FZ30/50 do. My previous TZ4 (after no less than 3 firmware updates) with the same Venus IV Engine did an absolutely anything but focus properly (except for at higher light levels, and with very coherent edges, to boot). The spatial frequency resolution of the portion of the image-sensor utilized for auto-focus was abysmal, and I found that I (literally) felt compelled to use (only) spot-focus mode in the case of all shots ... :cry: The LX3 appears somewhat better so far than the TZ4 auto-focusing in lower light-levels in the (normal-speed) single-area focusing mode - but (perhaps) not performing as well as did/does my FZ30/FZ50 in the same situations. However, the implementation of the vastly different in size (and thus in light gathering ability) lens systems in the larger FZs compared to the compact LX3 may perhaps favor the larger FZs - as they would appear to by their larger physical outer lens diameter to have more initial photons to "work with" in order to arrive at an auto-focus "decision" in lower light-levels.

Other factors that may well have been at play. Hand-held, (usually) unbraced shooting, doing macro close-ups, and slightly moving subjects at times in the near and far-field shooting cases. Using my mono-pod, however, I think that your approach would be well taken in the case of my shooting - as an image stabilization system that has "settled-out" in it's servo-ing process of compensating for the jolt could (perhaps in some situations) be worse than the natural damping and absorption of such a jolt as accomplished by the mono-pod and it's natural anchoring effects! However, at the long shutter times that I end up flirting with in LX3 Aperture-Priority shooting, I am not sure if my (further) movements in the subsequent shots might not need (further) compensation on an ongoing basis. Thus, my lowly shutter-speeds may require that my own (predominantly 15 CPS and higher frequency) involuntary physical movements be "monitored" and "mitigated" (so to speak) during the course of the shuttering of all of the "burst" shots - by the "wonder-servo" ... :ugeek:

One sometimes little-considered limitation of the (agreed) excellent Panasonic Lumix OIS (and affecting to some extent all mechanically implemented stabilization approaches) is that the "servo-range" within which the stabilization system can "hold-in" (and thus effectively servo the errors) is fairly small (on the order of barely one degree or so in radial measurement total, from what I have read in published papers of other folks knowing more than I about these systems). I am fairly certain that I have physically exceeded that fairly narrow requirement on a regular basis more than a few times when shooting hand-held in lower light-levels!

So, it seems that with a fair amount of initial mechanical stabilization provided, and a lens-system with qualities weathering well on their own, effective Image Stabilization (in general) can really be a boon (and for me, approaching a necessity at the lower light-levels that I find myself shooting in using F-Numbers on the order of 3.2 or higher, in order to be able to achieve adequate DOF). It's remarkable how many levels of "massaging with technology" the optically projected image goes through (from glass to digitization to in-camera hardware to software comprising post-facto attempted compensation for correctable optical perturbations, all the additional post-processing, etc., in and through final re-sampling and display/print). From all this smoke and mirrors at times emerges beauty!
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I see that your above post does answer my subsequently posted question (appearing a quoted below):

Detail Man":3d7gi950 said:
sonomichele -
Are you referring to applying your above suggested technique (with, or without) OIS being operational (or does that matter, in your observations)? I would be curious to know.
That is an interesting thought to consider - that the effect of the "jolting" of the mechanical assembly of the camera (and support-system), either with or without OIS mode being used, perhaps only mechanically "settles-out" from the force of depressing the shutter-button at a point in time that is after the the shutter has already opened for the first time in the series ...

When you use this technique, is it more applicable to (necessary for): hand-held (unbraced) shooting; or hand-held (braced) shooting; or mono-pod or tripod assisted shooting (or, all of the above)?

I am wondering if (as certainly is the case sometimes for me personally shooting hand-held) it could be that the (one or so maximum) degree (in radial angle) of freedom within which the OIS servo-system can "hold-in" could possibly be being exceeded in some of the cases where the first shot recorded in the series appears less detailed and sharp than the subsequent shots ... :?:
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Re: The Power of Image Stabilization

This is a freak shot that demonstrates what image-stabilization can do. I was shooting this beloved (fallen) tree-stump base with a mono-pod when (in the midst of the shutter opening) my own physical position slipped backwards (and away from the subject). The camera then also was moved backwards - along the slight arc corresponding to the circle that was traced as the mounted camera followed the set length of the (still-grounded at it's base) mono-pod.

However, the two dimensional projection (of the X and Y axis that the image stabilization compensates for) of the radial component of the motion that resulted (evidently) did not exceed the (roughly) one or two degree (or so) limit that the (in this case) optically implemented image-stabilization requires to remain within the tracking-range of the (two-dimensional) servo-system.

What then resulted was (nearly) all of the motion that can be seen in the image corresponded (only) to changes in the camera-subject distance. Although there is a rather tiny amount of (two-dimensional) "camera-shake" blurring at the exact center of the focused area (appearing right in the middle of the shot) - remarkably, the optical image stabilization "held-in" throughout my unintended (backwards) movement as the shutter was open. Pretty darn amazing, indeed ... :eek:
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Re: The Joy of Image Stabilization

Here is the "Tree Spirit" in a happier mood, after basking in the warm glow of a sunny Spring afternoon, enshrouded with lush green life nurtured by the steady rains of Winter.

Taken with a mono-pod and optical stabilization active - for a period of (at minimum) five full sinusoidal cycles of involuntary muscle tremors at (or above) the roughly 15 CPS minimum frequency that they are measured by EMG measurements to occur at. A very long shutter time (by any stretch) in any approach not involving the (for me) laborious and time consuming setup of position and angle of a tripod-stabilized shot. I can take gobs of shots from many different positions with a mono-pod in that same time period, and (literally) "focus on the fun part" ... :p

The (uncropped, full 8 Mpixel) spatial-frequency resolution visible with detail shown in the moss at this 1024x768 pixel-size (even better at re-sampled to 1600x1200 pixel-size) speaks to my joy at being able to pull this off without the (for me) laborious and time consuming setup of a tripod. The EV was 5.0 (referenced to ISO=100). That's a mere illumination of 4 candelas per square Meter. Not bad for F=2.8 without a tripod at about 1/3 second shutter-time!

The average level of the histogram (in PSP9) is a mere 33% (out of the 100% nominal value) - about one-half of the 66% value that usually is my minimum considered allowable average image intensity when I export a JPG image. Yet, quite a bit of detail is present in the "shadows". Credit is due to: the FZ30's Leica lens-system; the 1/1.8 Inch 8 Mpixel image sensor; the Venus II JPG Engine's accurate rendering of image details without noise (at ISO=80, that is ... ;) ); the DxO Optics Pro 6 with their FZ30 Module; and PaintShop Pro 9 for USM, and bicubic re-sampling to the target pixel-size. I just push the buttons and watch the results with my Firehand Ember Image Viewer. Once the "rare gem" of a source-image is collected, polishing it has become a leisurely, enjoyable, and (a seductively automated) pleasure, indeed!

Devout "do-it-myselfer" that I am, I am coming to more and more trust the program's amorphous and sophisticated sliders with names like "Vibrancy" and and "Dxo Lighting" (for auto/adjustable Shadow, Gamma, Global Contrast, Local Contrast control, and more). A sequential regimen of tweaking these controls is proving to be a rather quick way of approaching (and surpassing) what many, many hours of fiddling more crudely in PSP9 (which also remains useful as an adjunct) did not yield in conducting loss-less post-processing of in-camera JPG source images. Ditto for your 16-bit TIFs,as well!

If DxO Optics Pro is as good at it's flagship task of "raw" processing as it is at processing FZ30 JPGs (with FZ30 Module), I will be quite pleased! The only thing that the program unfortunately lacks is the ability to manage Highlights when processing all JPGs and TIFs (the "raw" mode has that). I export a 16-bit TIF to PSP9's Highlight/Midtone/Shadow , Bicubic Re-sample, Unsharp Mask at the target pixel-size, and JPG creation tools as a work-around.
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Re: The Joy of Image Stabilization

Here is a better example of lower light-level detail at 1/4 second shutter time, and an EV=5.33 (reference to ISO 100). With mono-pod, and the same post-processing tools used, as before.
 

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Re: Sublime Image Stabilization

I took this shot just following the "minima" of the total lunar eclipse on February 20, 2008 with my DMC-FZ30 at full telephoto (Zoom = 12.0, 35 mm equivalent Focal Length = 420 mm), sitting down with my mono-pod partially braced by the chair that I was sitting on, at an EV=1.85 (referenced to ISO 100), ISO=200, F=3.7, Shutter Time = 1.0 Second.

As with the rest of my work, it was the single best shot out of about 100. Nevertheless, were it not for the optical image stabilization, I could never have even come close to trying ... :p
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The Image Stability does work.

They shift the sensor North, South, East, West when required.
They are all calibrated individually.

If your using a Tripod/Monopod or holding the camera steady on say a desk, your best to turn IS off, as it can occasionally introduce blur, otherwise leave it on.
 
Which model(s) of Ricoh camera(s) do you use Image Stabilization with?

(If I remember correctly), Image Stabilization is an option of a few different Ricoh models.
 
Detail Man":3sg5b323 said:
Which model(s) of Ricoh camera(s) do you use Image Stabilization with?(If I remember correctly), Image Stabilization is an option of a few different Ricoh models.

??

R3 onwards has Vibration Correction along with the GX100/200

The GR series don't.
 
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