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GRD and GXR m

aquilon

New Member
This winter I had found that I much preferred using the grd 3 over the gxr m, but it didn't quite make sense to me. The gxr certainly has much better image quality. It is a bit larger, but the way I hold it, less camera shows itself to my subject so it probably is not much more imposing than the grd when photographing people. I was always a Leica shooter, so I have an array of lenses to choose from. So theoretically, the gxr should have been my camera of choice, but that was not the case .
When deciding what to pack for a quick foray to the West Indies, I figured I would bring just the gxr and an assortment of lenses to force myself to get really adept with it because I thought perhaps that was why I kept going back to the grd. Just as I was about to go out the door, I had a wave of anxiety and slipped my grd into my camera bag, just in case.
As it worked out, I shot mostly with the grd and I wasn't sure why. I started to form a theory towards the end of my stay (2 weeks) and have been thinking about it quite a bit since I have been home.
I am 56 now, and have been in and out of photography since I was 13 years old. In the "old" days , when there was the argument about whether photography was "art" or not, a person with a camera around their neck and a bag over their shoulder was clearly a pretty serious photographer. What he or she was doing was accorded at least a little bit of respect. It was, in fact, sort of rare to see someone with a "real" camera. Snapshooters had things like Instamatics and perhaps some other toylike camera in their pocket. If a "serious" photographer pointed their camera at a person, they seemed to be more flattered than encroached upon. Now, of course, things have changed.
In the West Indies, I found that by having my camera in my pocket, I could make contact much more easily with people than when I had the gxr either out, or in the bag which was clearly holding camera equipment. Without a camera showing, the exchanges I had with people were, in fact, more genuine and less guarded, on their part. One of the main reasons I travel is to make real connections with people who are very different from myself. It’s not only for the photos which is perhaps, why, when I referred to myself as a tourist, the locals would correct me, calling me a visitor. (I have, in fact, been to that same island several times and often have stayed longer.) I think that when you engage with people, give them some of who you are, and appreciate who they are, they are much happier to let you shoot your shots.
One day a cruise ship came to this little island I was visiting and I happened to go "into town," where there were all these tourists with all giant Nikons and Canons around their necks. Even some Leicas. You could see the locals steering clear of these folks and you could see these tourists pointing their cameras at the most cliché subject matter available. Postcard stuff.
I did take some landscape-type pictures that I am fairly pleased with using the gxr, and a few people pictures as well, but I think I shot 3 or 4 times as many frames with the grd. I wear my pants baggy so even though I use the gv-2, the grd just slipped into my pocket. Now that I am home, I keep telling myself I am going to conquer the gxr, but I always seem to leave the house with the grd. I think if I were going to shoot something planned -- like a portrait or some landscapes -- I would take the gxr, but otherwise I am having better results with the grd . Do not get me wrong. If it is image quality I am after, the gxr wins without any competition. And although I would love to master the gxr so that I could make the same kind of people pictures that I do with the grd, I am not sure I can get there given the way that cameras are currently perceived by the public.
 
Hi Jeff,

Don't worry! There is nothing wrong with you! ;) As much as I love the quality of A12 files, the GRD still wins for me for its pocketability and unobtrusive design. There is simply no better designed, thought of and feature packet small camera than the GRD. I'm not talking about the quality of output JPEG, but about the overall design from the camera body to menu system. It's very easy to fall in love with the GRD ;)

I only wish Ricoh would develop 40mm version of the GRD with even a bit faster lens (something like 40/1.4). I loved the GRDII+GT1 combo, but since the GT-1 is no longer made for the GRDIII/IV, it would be great to have the 40mm GRD with the same design as GRDIV. I mean both of them...28/1.9 and 40/1.4 version.
 
Hi Jeff,

Some interesting observations. A friend of mine remarked the other day that we are all good photographers now - I don't agree with him of course but he was referring to the ability of the digital photographer to review then retake their shots combined with the near auto everything options on today's cameras. I think this has something to do with the tourist and giant Nikon & Canon syndrome. I bet in the days of film most of them wouldn't have been carrying manual SLRs with large telephotos - as you said you would have been a 'real' photographer to carry all that stuff in those days. I guess that what part of your point.

My photographic journey is similar to yours in many ways. For a while I carried a big bag with an OM1 and OM2SP and a collection of 'prime' lenses - after a while I was under strict instructions to select one camera & one lens for the day which probably improved my photography as well as saved my marriage. Then the Dimage X1 arrived (the original digital version) and suddenly I had a camera in my shirt pocket all the time. After a while I realised I was not using the OMs any more except for special assignments. Only the Dimage travelled for a foreign holiday and after that I sold all the OM stuff to a collector. I miss holding the stuff but not carrying it!

For me the GRD series is near perfect. Easy to carry, great controls, super lenses and quite acceptable results given all the compromises in a compact design. I started with a GRD II, bought the adapters then snapped-up a KT version of the GRD - unused - at a silly (cheap) price. The GRD demanded a bit more input from it but I really liked its relative simplicity and honest results. After lots of indecision about a GRD IV or a GXR A28 (or nothing new) I ended-up buying a IV because it is such a minature marvel. After some more 'strict instructions' one of the cameras had to go....and it was the GRD II because the GRD is a classic and I like using it so much....it now lives in a small bag with the GT-1 on and the start settings are B&W. The GRD IV lives in a GC-4 case with the GV-2 fitted and is either in a pocket or shoulder slung - or taking pictures.

So I think you are quite normal liking to use your GRD most of the time....yes the GXR/A28 IQ is fantatastic but don't fight doing what you enjoy.

Richard
 
Make that a Dimage X, not X1. A whole 2 MP! Street shot attached of Australian Ice Cream in De Haan Belgium.

Richard
 

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Acquilon, the more I read posts like yours and see similar responses, the more I tend to think that there are quite a few of us who believe there is a niche for a truly pocket-able compact large sensor camera. I believe that Ricoh-Pentax is the perfect company to put out an APS-C sensor based slim compact with a few pancake lenses (or 2 models with fixed lenses, like the Sigma DP) - they should put the K-5 or GXR sensor into a weatherproof slim body, no thicker than the GRD, Samsung NX, or DP, and you'd have the ultimate backpacker's camera, especially for those of us who like to keep some sort of unobtrusiveness while taking photos of strangers.
I'd put it in my pocket, take it everywhere, in dust or rain, and for me it would satisfy all my photographic needs.
The two companies have all that it takes - great IQ, products with good weather resistance, great user interfaces, and a history of catering to the enthusiast market.
I can't even bear the thought of taking out a big DSLR when I'm alone in the desert, let alone at a marketplace...
Here's to minimalism!
 
odklizec":2xo5i07v said:
I only wish Ricoh would develop 40mm version of the GRD with even a bit faster lens (something like 40/1.4). I loved the GRDII+GT1 combo, but since the GT-1 is no longer made for the GRDIII/IV, it would be great to have the 40mm GRD with the same design as GRDIV. I mean both of them...28/1.9 and 40/1.4 version.

That`s why I`m not willing to sell my GRD II + 40mm lens until the new (and last?) GRD V with fixed 40mm? lens comes out. I won`t give up til that happens. Maybe Ricoh it`s listening to my pray until I decide if I go for the new DP2 Merrill.
 
Great post!

The Ricoh GRDs are my favorite camera and it never fails to impress. And they keep getting better and better. Wide angle, beautiful macro, gorgeous B&W from RAW, super easy to handle, shoot and customize... Dare I call it a perfect camera?
 
Blow-in":c1vgwwtl said:
For me the GRD series is near perfect. Easy to carry, great controls, super lenses and quite acceptable results given all the compromises in a compact design. I started with a GRD II
I fall in love with photography again after buying the Ricoh GRD II, also with all the adaptors and lenses. That´s why I don´t want to sell it...I´ll miss it for sure. Great post and very helpfull for me. Thanks!
 
I am wondering if Ricoh made a mistake by not making a higher end gx200 . It seems to me that with a few adjustments [ such as no flash , more snap focus steps ,lens with less barrel distortion and chromatic aberration , stronger and weatherproof body , to name a very few ] it could really be the ultimate "pocket" camera . I think most of us probably think that phones are going to take over the snapshot world and I believe that a camera would be wise to ignore the so called
consumer market . I think Apple owns that now .
I am a person who questions the value of the large sensor camera unless one wants to use lenses from the film age . Have you folks actually looked at 13x19 prints made from grd raw files ? They are astounding . I shoot 2:3 so I get 8.9mp and I like the results better than my Leica and Kodachrome prints . And with the small sensor you get almost unlimited depth of field , which is the way MY eye sees the world and is also the key to the Leica look . Look at what Fuji has done with a fairly small sensor on the X pro 1 . I suspect great advances in sensors is just around the corner .
 
Acquilon, thank you for posting. You've said what I have thought for a long time, only you said it more eloquently. I have also experienced your sentiments and I will note we are similar age - perhaps that is something to do with it. I find the GRD is my camera I take when I go out and don't intend to take images. More often though I grab it as I "see" something. The little GRD is less of a burden, both to carry and think about. I have cameras with bigger sensors but they are larger and tend to be left behind unless there is a project. The film GRs were bought by climbers, something to grab a image at the summit.

On a holiday a few years ago I took my GRD II, a Contax T3 and my wife had her Canon G9. The only camera used was the GRD, only about twice did I miss a longer or shorter focal length because I spent my time looking for 28mm image. Thinking in 28mm.
I do hope Ricoh will make a GRD V - while increased IQ would be nice to have it seems to only be needed to make it succeed in the marketplace, not actually needed by those who use GRDs. A GRD IV is on my radar I have a few ideas for the unique functions that the GRD IV has - that is the time to buy.

One good thing from your post is that you took the GRD as a backup. At least you will be equipped should your main fail (hoping not), then you can revert to GRD mode.
 
This is a thoughtful thread. Being a backpacker who counts the ounces I have been thinking about this year's camera upgrade carefully. My GX200 has been great and I'm hooked on Ricoh's customisability. I am envious of GRDIII IQ though and I want something better for low light conditions.

I wonder how much I'm going to miss the zoom of the GX200 if I switch to the fixed 28mm. I like taking wildlife shots. I guess I'll have to borrow the wife's Panny TZ18 for that. :D

My question to people who have owned both of these cameras is: Which do you like better and why?
 
Hi Rog. ;) .....I own both a GRD and a GX200. (Also a GXR with S10). Personally I wouldn't part with any of them and use them according to their characteristics. I also am a 'weight watcher' when I go anywhere I usually only take one, sometimes two out with me at the same time. It depends on what I'm going out to photograph. The GRD I use mainly for street, and 95% B&W. (The GRDIII does have better colour rendition though.) The GX200 I find a wonderful low light, low (below 200) ISO camera, so use it where lighting is not an issue, or I can sensibly carry along a light tripod. And I generally only use it for colour now I have a GXR, the reason being I feel the IQ of the GX(12mp) is better (for colour), but in saying that the GXR is way ahead for B&W's (sharper and nicer blacks and whites).. The zoom comes in handy, as you know, and I don't think I could do without one now I've gotten used to having it.(Had the GR first). so.....
If you're into taking wildlife shots and you stick with the GRIII you'll be borrowing your wife's camera an awful lot. The zoom is simply a must have I would think.
The GRD is an awesome street and general use camera but pretty much unsuited to 'wildlife', (unless it's on the street. :shock:) whereas the GX I simply cannot use as a street camera because it's almost unusable above ISO200.
In answer to your question ; Which do you like better and why?...For the uses they're suited to I simply couldn't pick between them. I'd like to keep both. But... If it came down to one it then becomes what I (or you) like to photograph more often. For me it's nature and so would go with the GX...and a tripod. :? (there goes the weight!)
(IMO the GRDI is a classic and has unbeatable grain, and even though it's just cost me au$200 for a new lens assembly, it's not going anywhere!)

Even though I'm mentioning the GRD1 and not the III, I hope this has helped you somewhat.....
 
Hi Marcus, and thanks for the response. Hmm, that does give me some things to think about. You're right that the GX can take some good low light shots from a stable support. I like experimenting with it, and when I really need to light up the neighborhood for capturing low light action, I have my old oly OM flash unit and the MY1 settings at the ready.

I guess I'm looking for the holy grail of the perfect all rounder, which probably doesn't exist. The GX 200 is definitely an adequate all rounder though, and excels on sunny days. I really wish it would do double service with a 720p video mode though. I know that discussing video isn't a very popular thing to do on serious photography sites, but it does add an extra dimension to my trip reports. Thing is, we are then into GXR territory.

So how do you find the GXR + S10 24-72 lens unit compared to the GX200? Similar light collection? Better sensor? How much bigger and heavier does it feel compared to the GX200?
 
Rog Tallbloke":1aa6rmx2 said:
I know that discussing video isn't a very popular thing to do on serious photography sites, but it does add an extra dimension to my trip reports. Thing is, we are then into GXR territory.
Yeah Rog....think I'll start with this one.....It's, as you say, not very popular here as in other places, but that's not to say it shouldn't be. I for one have never used video on any of my cameras, but many do, I'm sure. Maybe it's something more would give a go if it was discussed more readily? I wonder what others on the forum have to say in this regard, and whether it's worth having a topic on the index page? (Is this possible, Pavel?) Or maybe just a thread to guage interest?..... :?:
Rog Tallbloke":1aa6rmx2 said:
So how do you find the GXR + S10 24-72 lens unit compared to the GX200? Similar light collection? Better sensor? How much bigger and heavier does it feel compared to the GX200?
May I be corrected if I'm wrong.......The lens units seem quite similar in their usage, though the GX is much noisier but IMO focuses better, especially in macro mode. The zoom and sensors are the same size, though as you may know 12mp's are squeezed into the GX, whereas 10 or so into the GXR. Funnily enough I prefer the GX (much better colour) as a low ISO camera over the GXR, but once passed ISO200 the GXR takes over. Many more effects on the GXR also.
The B&W's are a different matter altogether. GXR is sharper, crisper, has nicer grain, more usable ISO's and with variable snap distance, is more user friendly.
It is also a different beast in your hands, being bigger and heavier than the GX, but surprisingly not by much by my calculation. I use my GX with the GH-2 attached with a skylight filter on for protection, so it no longer fits in the pocket, nor does the GXR, so they're similar in that regard also.
The GXR feels much nicer in the hands, and with the extra weight, is steadier. Also, in it's favour is the fact you don't have to buy a new camera to suit your changing needs, rather just a different module, all of which to my knowledge are exceptional, even the humble and apparently lowliest P10, and you only need to take a look at Athena's (my partners) posts to see what can be squeezed out of that one...Awesome!
So what would I choose out of these two......probably the GXR, and only because I shoot mainly B&W and don't really enjoy carrying around a tripod! But I still don't want to part with the GX, after all it's a great camera!...haven't yet found a Ricoh that wasn't... :cool:
 
I use the GXR and GRD4 for a very simple reason. With every camera I have ever used other then Leica's....there is a learning curve. I have to come to terms with the camera and learn it's stupid way it thinks. They usually intrude on my vision.

With the GXR & GRD4, they teach me a new way to see what I've been seeing for over 45 years.
There is a Zen with these 2 cameras. I do not have to think or struggle with them. Do I have a favorite? No. I love both.
Why have both? Because 1 fits in my pocket the other doesn't like it in there.

I'm not crazy, this is why I have these cameras.
Don
 
Thanks Marcus, that's a real help for me in thinking further about what I want to do. One of those things is keeping my GX200, so it looks like one of my two Olympus DSLR's is going up for sale, along with a few lenses I don't use. :D
 
Well, this is getting exciting. After some discussion and a read of reviews, my lady has decided against replacing her lost Panny TZ7 with a TZ18 and has agreed to go halves with me on a bid for a GXR with P10 module! There's one finishing on ebay in an hour or so and its ours I say, OURS! :D
 
The GRD III is a fabulous little camera that gets me out of a jam and delivers in the most demanding situations with no wires, no strobes, no power packs, just that little camera and a little light.
 
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